Notice Period

chocoholic123

Well I have spent the last 5 weeks in a job I hate - and have already started job hunting...

I have an interview next week!!! If i am lucky and get offered it, or if the subject is brought up at interview - what is my notice period?

My contract says THREE MONTHS... I really can't stand that. So if my boss insists - where do i stand?

What stops me from just going?
How can my notice period be longer than my length of service?

In case it is relevant - I work in the NHS as a manager - in role that hasn't been agenda'd for change yet.

Glamazon

Hi

I am also an NHS manager - I work in a GP practice so things are slightly different as it's the GP's who own the practice.
I also have to give 3 months notice and it's not Agenda for Change, it's just standard nowdays - especially with GP's who try to copy A4C but don't give you all the benefits like 27 days holiday!! 3 months gives them time to find someone else and do a handover (this is essential - I never had one and have spent the last 6 months finding my feet)
My contract stated a probationary period of 3 months, check whether yours does as this is standard in most contracts - gives your employer 3 months to decide if they like you and vice versa I believe you can leave anytime during this time. If you haven't got a probationary period and have to give 3 months notice, I believe they could take you to court if you just up and leave - also it's not really very fair on the people you manage as they will be destabilised.

If you get the job, speak to your employer and see whether they will reduce your notice period, explain why you are so unhappy if they get someone quickly then you never know. If you look back a few pages you will see a post 'Help, I hate my job, false promises galore' read my experience - I have told my manager how I feel and things look like they could be getting better.

If you work in a GP Practice in the North West let me know as I could be on the look out!!!!:rotfl:

Good luck with interview!

pinkshoes

If your boss insists, and that's what's in the contract you signed, then that's what should happen.

Just be honest with your boss. If you get offered this new job, tell your boss why you decided to leave so soon, and see if they'll reduce your notice period to a month. They really won't want you to stay if you're not enjoying it.

5 weeks isn't long to decide you hate a manager's job! What's so bad about it?

LittleVoice

You could say that your notice period is 3 months but may be negotiable.

Even in the NHS, most managers won't want to have someone working with them who really doesn't want to be there. So, depending on how difficult it would be to fill your shoes temporarily at least, you may well be able to leave earlier.

However, if the job you are applying for is also in the NHS, remember that they will have similar notice periods and would expect people to have to give that amount of notice and could think it a bit disloyal to leave early.

Is the question about how your notice period is greater than your employment period rhetorical? If not, the answer is that it's in your contract. It's generally rather nice to know that your employer would have to give you that much notice as well from Day 1.

chocoholic123

Thanks for your advice everyone.

When you say they could take me to court - how would that work? I'm not being paid by them - I'm not taking any money that wouldn't be due to me. I can't imagine what a court would do with the case?

Before i started the role was vacant since Feb 08 so my boss can't claim the role is vital.

The reason i hate it is that I fear I am being bullied. I don't want to kick up a fuss, or anything else - i just want to get out of there. I do not feel like a manager, my work is scrutinized with in an inch of its life. My boss talks to me like i am rubbish at my role. It has really knocked my confidence. The stress is unbearable.

EG
At 3pm I am told that I am giving a presentation to the Chief Exec the next day at 9am - on a complex subject - for 40mins (i'm a first level manager in role for 2 weeks at this time, what am i doing be sent to do this?). I'm to put it together right away so that my boss can see it before he leaves. (having been in work since before 8am i was planning on leaving at 4pm. -he knew this) Still i stay late and try to rush to put something together. I show him and he makes more improvements - so i stay even later to fix them. I do the presentation the next day and it well except there was a spelling mistake and a missing footer on the notes. After the meeting he calls me into his office and tells me off! No appreciation for my effort - just says "What the hell happened!?!?!?". Sorry the fact that I produced an interesting and coherent presentation at short notice is a magnificent effort from me - but he just focussed on how bad we looked because of a tiny spelling error on one slide. It says more about his poor planning than my lack of skills. Now take that example imagine the stress and lack of appreciation and imagine that every day for the last five weeks - that's why i want to leave.

Incisor

Are you not in a probationary period? If you are, I would give the amount of notice that you are on with them, take accumulated leave and go.

Glamazon

Oh dear, sounds very familiar. Everyone I speak to that works in PCT's and GP surgeries says they are short-staffed so everyone gets dumped on.

Why not tell your manager how you feel? Explain that you worked really hard to get it done by the tight deadline (make a point of saying you cancelled an appointment to stay and do the work - doctors or dentist will work not hairdressers!), thought you did a really good job except for the spelling mistake (I'm assuming you're only human after all) and am upset about the way you were treated. If you feel you can't do this then wait until you get another job then tell them to stick the job where the sun don't shine :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Ring ACAS about the notice thing - please, please check your contract. I've worked for [EMAIL="PCT@s"]PCT's[/EMAIL] and they have have the probationary period as well - read back through other posts on this forum you can usually find answers in there.

LittleVoice

I don't understand about giving notice to an organisation which isn't paying you!

If they don't pay you, they don't have a contract with you, do they?

Your contract is with whoever pays you. Who or what is that?

floss2

chocoholic123 wrote: »

Thanks for your advice everyone.

When you say they could take me to court - how would that work? I'm not being paid by them - I'm not taking any money that wouldn't be due to me. I can't imagine what a court would do with the case?

Before i started the role was vacant since Feb 08 so my boss can't claim the role is vital. How do you know? You've only been there 5 weeks. You do not know how vital or not a role is - how long it takes to recruit is not important. The shortage of staff may have resulted in your boss becoming overworked & stressed.....

The reason i hate it is that I fear I am being bullied. I don't want to kick up a fuss, or anything else - i just want to get out of there. I do not feel like a manager, my work is scrutinized with in an inch of its life. My boss talks to me like i am rubbish at my role. It has really knocked my confidence. The stress is unbearable.

EG
At 3pm I am told that I am giving a presentation to the Chief Exec the next day at 9am - on a complex subject - for 40mins (i'm a first level manager in role for 2 weeks at this time, what am i doing be sent to do this?) Perhaps because it is your job?. I'm to put it together right away so that my boss can see it before he leaves. (having been in work since before 8am i was planning on leaving at 4pm. -he knew this) Part & parcel of a managerial role - react to the needs of the department Still i stay late and try to rush to put something together. I show him and he makes more improvements - so i stay even later to fix them. I do the presentation the next day and it well except there was a spelling mistake and a missing footer on the notes. After the meeting he calls me into his office and tells me off! No appreciation for my effort - just says "What the hell happened!?!?!?". Sorry the fact that I produced an interesting and coherent presentation at short notice is a magnificent effort from me - but he just focussed on how bad we looked because of a tiny spelling error on one slide. Perhaps he too is stressed - people who have been under pressure react in different ways. He may have felt a right fool, sitting there while a presentation given had a spelling mistake & a footer missing....he may have been extremely nervous about how HIS boss would react. It says more about his poor planning than my lack of skills. He may have only just been told about it. Now take that example imagine the stress and lack of appreciation and imagine that every day for the last five weeks - that's why i want to leave.

Have you had any probationary review yet? Have you talked to your line manager about your progress & how they perceive you? Have you got much previous managerial experience?

chocoholic123

Thanks for your thought Floss it is interesting to see it from another angle. Some thoughts -

I except that if I was a different sort of person I could make a go of this job... but i want to work to live, not live to work. I feel it is a lot of pressure for someone at an entry level for managing. Its my first (junior) managerial role and my boss knows this. Its really not that well paid. I don't mind reacting to the needs of the department and giving extra hours where necessary - but i don't want to do it everyday and feel so unappreciated. My boss does 7am-10pm.... seriously... i can't (and don't want to) live up to that. I think he creates his own stress.

I told my boss that i found the role to stressful, and he said i was clearly coping with it and would learn to thrive on it. This is the closest thing to a compliment i have had. Everything else has been nitpicking.

The point of the thread wasn't about why i want to leave - i know this role isn't for me. I have spoken to the previous person in post and she said that this was exactly why she left. She worked just under three months and then was made to do three months notice - making just under six months. That is what the original question was about - (even though it may seem bizarre that my contract doesn't mention a probationary period) what is the worst that can happen if i refuse to work my notice period of three months?

kittykitten

Apart from anything else if you refuse to work your notice period you could end up owing your employer money. If they terminated your contract without the proper notice (usually the same as your notice period) they'd have to pay you for that period - this happened to my mum when she was made redundant. Her whole department was made redundant and their end date was shorter notice than the company was supposed to give, because the work finished earlier than expected, so basically the company ended up paying them all for 4 weeks work when they weren't actually there!
This apparently works the opposite way - last week one of the girls at the other side that my manager looks after just walked in and said she was leaving then walked out. We've debated this long and hard in our office, and my manager's been in touch with HR, and she difinitely can't do this because our notice period is 3 months (also NHS, incidentally) so it looks like she'd going to end up owing them money in lieu of notice if she refuses to work her notice period.

A lot of managers will understand if you're so unhappy you feel you want to leave without working your notice period, the key is to talk to them. Don' just drop them in it with no warning. Also, if you feel you can't approach you manager or he isn't helpful talk to HR - you can ask them to keep it confidential - and see where you stand.

Hope it goes ok, good luck with the interview, xx