Times: Back to the Great Depression?

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

jamescredmond wrote: »

IIRC, holborn building soc. london went belly up in 1967, due to dodgy book-keeping and a woeful regulatory system.

:rotfl::rotfl:Nobody should know that!

dannyboycey

Kez100 wrote: »

You've got PN completely wrong.

I'd imagine for years she has sat in her sensible world of living within her means on a low income dicated not by laziness but by local forces only to see people around her throwing money away like it is going out of fashion. They are soon to get a big shock and, yes, they do deserve it.

I really enjoy PN's postings, it's just that this one took be aback as it seemed a bit out of character.

As far as I'm concerned, people are free to spend their money however they see fit. As for 'deserving a big shock'... it's a waste of energy concerning yourself with what people derserve or don't deserve as the case may be.

Kez100

Yes, they are free to spend their money as they see fit however, if their decisions were not fit then they must take the consequences.

I'm not concerning myself with anyone else, just making a general forum comment that if people have seen fit to spend money in a non fit way then it will bite them in the bum.

Henwen

I've always thought that confidence in the economy is crucial though. Panicking makes any crisis worse. Not panicking gives the economy more time to sort itself out with less pain. Take the banks' lack of money as an example: a few banks leant too much to the wrong people and got short of cash. Other banks then panicked that they would run short of cash and refused to lend. This made the problems of the first banks worse and led to Northern Rock and other problems. If the banks had all treated it as a lesson not to lend so wildly and carried on lending to each other a bit more normally, maybe even Northern Rock would still be trading as a private bank.

Newspaper articles like the pne below help to fuel panic and therefore increase the problems. But the trouble is that the newspaper/TV think bad news sells better and therefore keep printing/showing gloomy predictions.

Don't get me wrong, there are some problems, but (with sensible management and a bit of calm) the whole economy need not collapse.

dudleyboy

dannyboycey wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, people are free to spend their money however they see fit. As for 'deserving a big shock'... it's a waste of energy concerning yourself with what people derserve or don't deserve as the case may be.

Ah, but they've not just been spending their own money have they... in most cases they've been spending the banks'... and as a result their lack of foresight and restraint have significantly contributed to the dire situation that we now all face.

Yes, the banks did lend irresponsibly, but if people hadn't borrowed irresponsibly then they'd be able to pay it all back... and they can't... and because they can't we are ALL going to be a lot poorer as a result for a very long time to come.

For those of us who've lived within, or even below (while saving for a deposit) our means, it will be refreshing to see common sense and restraint prevail again, even if people do have to learn the hard way. Yes, we'll all be equally poor... but when house prices fall, and the banks start trusting people with mortgages again... who do you think they'll be wanting to lend to this time around?

dudleyboy

Henwen wrote: »

I've always thought that confidence in the economy is crucial though. Panicking makes any crisis worse. Not panicking gives the economy more time to sort itself out with less pain. Take the banks' lack of money as an example: a few banks leant too much to the wrong people and got short of cash. Other banks then panicked that they would run short of cash and refused to lend. This made the problems of the first banks worse and led to Northern Rock and other problems. If the banks had all treated it as a lesson not to lend so wildly and carried on lending to each other a bit more normally, maybe even Northern Rock would still be trading as a private bank.

Newspaper articles like the pne below help to fuel panic and therefore increase the problems. But the trouble is that the newspaper/TV think bad news sells better and therefore keep printing/showing gloomy predictions.

Don't get me wrong, there are some problems, but (with sensible management and a bit of calm) the whole economy need not collapse.

Who's panicking? I didn't spend more than I could afford then and I'm not spending more than I can afford now. In fact, the only thing that's changed for me is the amount of credit card / loan junk mail I receive in the post and the only thing that's changed for most people is that they can't get hold of any more credit to squander.

If sales are down, and consumer confidence is down, it's because people have finally realised that the "never never" has a deadline... and it's already passed.

What happens now is that a correction (or CRASH) is about to take place. Those people who like to invest will rediscover the meaning of risk, and those who like to spend will learn the virtues of saving.

It's going to be a difficult period of adjustment for them, and I'm going to have to rent for a few years longer than I'd like, but life still goes on. Reality is about to kick in for a lot of people and they'll notice it far more than I.

pickles110564

PasturesNew wrote: »

I've always been poor. It'd be nice to have a few people joining me.

Bad Day?
Probably been trying out new interview tatics.;)

jamescredmond

Henwen wrote: »

I've always thought that confidence in the economy is crucial though. Panicking makes any crisis worse. Not panicking gives the economy more time to sort itself out with less pain. Take the banks' lack of money as an example: a few banks leant too much to the wrong people and got short of cash. Other banks then panicked that they would run short of cash and refused to lend. This made the problems of the first banks worse and led to Northern Rock and other problems. If the banks had all treated it as a lesson not to lend so wildly and carried on lending to each other a bit more normally, maybe even Northern Rock would still be trading as a private bank.

Newspaper articles like the pne below help to fuel panic and therefore increase the problems. But the trouble is that the newspaper/TV think bad news sells better and therefore keep printing/showing gloomy predictions.

Don't get me wrong, there are some problems, but (with sensible management and a bit of calm) the whole economy need not collapse.

oh, it's crucial allright, but if the market really is governed by 'greed and fear'
then we can all forget about 'panic' and start thinking 'unbridled terror'.

and so the market will do the 'self-fulfilling prophecy' bit.

to be fair, I don't think we're headed for a full-blown recession but things are going to be painful for some time.

and much of it can be put down to ignorant, !!!!less borrowing and greedy, reckless lending.

I reserve my sympathy for the innocent.

rant over for today.

more tomorrow.

martinman3

SteveyLomas wrote: »

anything that goes up and down based on perceived value is far riskier than cash in a bank..

Eh ? So far we have had Northern Rock and Bear Stearns needing to be rescued and the value of USD and GBP are sliding fast. The point is currencies have a perceived value too, it is called their exchange rate. The importance of Gold is when it is more is demand than your own currency, ask anyone in Zimbabwe which they would rather have.

SteveyLomas wrote: »

If you are really worried put the money, as someone said above, in government bonds. The rate is higher than inflation still and western governments do not default on debt.

You are correct and the government will print enough money to ensure that they can pay it back.;)
You only need to look at the US to see what happens to the value of the currency after that.