CCA Request..GE Money/viking.WHERE DO I GO NOW?

poptart1_2

I sent for a copy of the cca with ge money, enclosed the fee and sent it recorded delivery, I have had a reply back within the 12 + 2 days it reads as follows.Dear

---

account no.

---

Thankyou for your letter dated 15 june 2008 received on 19 june 2008
I can confirm that under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we are only obliged to provide a copy of the original agreement if we have it, If we do not then we are obliged to provide a atrue copy or a copy of the terms and conditions which is enclosed.I also enclose a statement of account that we are obliged to provide under section 78 (revolving credit)
I trust that this information will be of assistance.
Now what I need to know is , is this debt unenforceable?
what is my next move?
the terms and conditions they enclose do not have my account no on
do not have any signature
and have no apr on
any help or advice greatly appreciated

Broken_hearted

If you owe it pay it if not fight it.

kel123_2

poptart1 wrote: »

Thankyou for your letter dated 15 june 2008 received on 19 june 2008
I can confirm that under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we are only obliged to provide a copy of the original agreement if we have it, If we do not then we are obliged to provide a atrue copy or a copy of the terms and conditions which is enclosed.I also enclose a statement of account that we are obliged to provide under section 78 (revolving credit)
I trust that this information will be of assistance.

If it is a loan or Credit card taken out before the 7th April 2007 then - What a load of pig swill and cow dribble.

For s77

Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement.
— (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1 £1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a)
the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

(b)
the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

(c)
the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.


(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—
(a)
an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

(b)
a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.


(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a)
he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b)
if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.


(5) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement.

for s78

Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.
— (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1 £1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a)
the state of the account, and

(b)
the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

(c)
the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.


(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—
(a)
an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

(b)
a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.


(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—
(a)
showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

(b)
where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.


(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a)
he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b)
if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.


(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections (4) and (5) do not apply to a small agreement

It is up to whether to stop paying or not but as it stands (i.e. no credit agreement) a judge under curent legislation is instructed that where no Consumer Credit Agreement is present they cannot enforce any claim. (hence the term unenforceable) This does not mean that the game is over and you may still be chased for the debt untill it becomes statute barred (6 years in England and Wales). If they do find one then the judge can enforce it if it is in the correct format and containing the main prescribed terms.

Good luck

Kel

poptart1_2

thankyou for reply.
It is a store card, so are there any furthur steps I need to take? or do I just let it lie? and no nothing,
Are there any template letters I need to send them to follow it up and if so where do I obtain them?
Sorry for so many requests but I am so inexperienced at this type of thing.
cheers and good luck with your dmp etc

fermi

Maybe.........

Dear Sirs,

Account Number: XXX

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of the Terms and conditions.

I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the executed agreement.

Sections 77/78 states that:

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.”

This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this case in particular to the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) and the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553).

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document, the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable.

I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

And

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true copy of the said agreement.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS and with be VIGOROUSLY defended, putting you to a STRICT PROOF of your claim and COMPLIANCE with the law.

Please also not that under section 127(3), the court is precluded from enforcing any agreement unless an agreement exists that is signed by the debtor and contains the prescribed terms listed under the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553).

The terms and condition you provided DO NOT contain these prescribed terms.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.
Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
• You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
• You may not pass the account to a third party.
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I would appreciate you due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

stapeley

If your financial position is dire and you are struggling I should only pay what you can afford . Are they hassling you ? Because they do not have a copy of the signed CCA, it does not mean the debt goes away . It does mean that it is very likely to be unenforceable . If you stop paying anything you will find they will still bombard you with threats . How to deal with this is suggested on several other posts .