PPI Commission on old secured loans re: Plevin?

BooJewels · 3 March 2018 at 6:57PM

We made a complaint about PPI on an old secured loan in 2017, the bank also found several products we'd had over the years with PPI and put through a complaint on all of them together, apart from a couple of still active ones that I asked them not to.

They found 5 secured loans and 'upheld' the complaint on the first one chronologically and 'defended' the later four. Because the 5 loans were basically daisy chained - as we almost paid off one, we took another and paid off the previous one and kept the balance etc. Consequently, the payout comprised of some very complicated compound interest through the loans, resulting in a decent payout which we were happy with and filed it away as job done. I heard about Plevin but never gave it another thought as I didn't think it applied to us - I thought that our PPI journey was well and truly over.

We've just got another letter with that complaint number referenced, apologising for how long it is all taking, but they're to revisit the commission paid and hope to respond by the middle of the year.

I've dug out the loan nos. etc. and found some of the paperwork and these 4 later loans were between 1997 and 2002. As I understand it, Plevin pertains to loans taken before 6th April 2007, but still active on 6th April 2008?

So am I right in assuming that only any of these 4 'defended' loans still going in April 2008 might be looked into? Which I think is only the latest one of them, but of course, that's the one I haven't found the papers for just yet.

Each of the earlier loan agreement documents state: "We will keep any commission which we get in connection with any insurance which we arrange".

Would the fact that the loan paperwork admits to receiving commission mean it's a non-starter, or is that wording vague enough to mean that if the commission was high, it might still pay out? I suspect it's only one loan and won't be much anyway, but if it's a non-starter, I'll just file it away and forget about it.

[Deleted User] · 3 March 2018 at 7:25PM

BooJewels wrote: »

Each of the earlier loan agreement documents state: "We will keep any commission which we get in connection with any insurance which we arrange".

Would the fact that the loan paperwork admits to receiving commission mean it's a non-starter, or is that wording vague enough to mean that if the commission was high, it might still pay out?

Since Plevin refers solely to undisclosed (not "high") commission charges, I think it's clear that those loans are unlikely to be eligible for a Plevin refund. The wording also seems plain and in no way "vague".

However, since the Bank have written to you saying that they will review your complaint, that's cause for optimism.

So don't give up hope yet.

BooJewels · 3 March 2018 at 7:52PM

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Since Plevin refers solely to undisclosed (not "high") commission charges, I think it's clear that those loans are unlikely to be eligible for a Plevin refund. The wording also seems plain and in no way "vague".

By 'vague' I simply meant they didn't specify how much commission or a percentage etc. You wouldn't know from that if it was a tenner or a grand. But, as you say, it is clearly disclosed. I need to dig out the paperwork to the more pertinent, most recent, loan, see if that's the same. Seems unlikely that it will differ.

However, since the Bank have written to you saying that they will review your complaint, that's cause for optimism.

I think it sounds like a very long shot (and it was totally unexpected), so I shan't be holding my breath, but I could do with a little bit of good luck just now.

Your input it appreciated, thank you.

BooJewels · 3 March 2018 at 9:02PM

I've now found the documents for the other loans and the pertinent one from 2002 was still running until 2013, when we paid it off by consolidating the mortgage when an under performing endowment matured. The paperwork does have that same wording about commission, so it seems very unlikely that we have any sort of valid claim, so I'm not sure why they'd waste a stamp actually sending this letter. But they've done some weird stuff over the years, so who knows.

Just out of curiosity, when they do pay out on loans like this, am I correct in thinking that it is a repayment of any commission over and above 50% of your total PPI fees, plus 8% interest? So if the bank received 67% commission (I think I read Dunston put this as a typical bank amount), the customer would get 17% of the total PPI, plus 8% interest?

Is it the total PPI on the whole term of the loan - or just what you actually paid, if the loan was paid off early, as in our case? If that were the case, I think it would end up about £350-ish very loosely on this loan. I shan't got spending it though, as it sounds extremely unlikely.

amersall · 3 March 2018 at 9:23PM

If 4 loans were defended by the bank, how did you get the PPI back that included what was carried over to these loans from the original, or, have I read it wrong?.

Plevin is about commission, it has nothing to do with the PPI, if you had redress for the PPI, they owe you nothing as you had all the PPI and interest back.

BooJewels · 3 March 2018 at 10:00PM

I thought that I'd explained it in the OP, but perhaps not clearly enough. We had 5 loans over about 20 years. We had a PPI settlement paid on the first of those chronologically, but because each subsequent loan was used to pay off the previous one, the bank concluded that our subsequent borrowing was increased due to that first additional payment for PPI. I have a document with several pages of tables with numbers carried forward through each loan. A lot of small amounts, but they added up.

The later 4 loans didn't result in any direct payments for PPI, they were defended.

I do understand that Plevin is about commission, I thought my previous posts would illustrate that I do grasp that. I'm not claiming under Plevin, not stating that I have any entitlement to do so, but the bank have written to me out of the blue, using the complaint reference in respect of these 5 loans, saying that they're looking at all complaints where "the level of commission received by the Bank was not disclosed to customers during the PPI sale" I was merely seeking clarification of the criteria for these Plevin payouts.

I don't think it's likely to come to anything, but I wanted to understand it better. If I'm right, it will only apply to the last of those 5 loans anyway, date-wise. I'm interested to see that word 'level' in the letter, I'd missed that initially.

amersall · 3 March 2018 at 10:23PM

Usually when you have loans that repaid the previous loans each time, you would have had a rebate of the PPI but you would have repaid the remaining PPI back in the settlement figure, that you paid back with the next loan and so on, this is a reason for mis sell.

If they have been repaid "amounts back" for each loan, they should all have been "mis sold" not just the first one and you not given "bits" from each subsequent one, that was what I don't understand and wondered why they did that.

You said

I have a document with several pages of tables with numbers carried forward through each loan. A lot of small amounts, but they added up

What were these amounts for and did you get them paid back to you?.

Have I still got it wrong?.:o

amersall · 3 March 2018 at 10:33PM

You are correct in what you said with Plevin and commission.
If the other loans were not upheld, they really should have been, you deserve to get something from this. Fingers crossed.

[Deleted User] · 3 March 2018 at 10:42PM

amersall wrote: »

Have I still got it wrong?.:o

I think so. The OP had a consolidation chain of loans which, unusually, had the original loan PPI complaint upheld and the subsequent ones rejected. So he's had a refund of the original PPI amount plus interest and (I assume) any associated interest carried over to the subsequent loans.

Now, out of the blue, the Bank have written to say they are considering the other four loans for a possible Plevin refund of undisclosed commission

Like you I suspect, if this were now I'd be recommending the OP to go to the Ombudsman with the original complaint result as I think he should have received back all the PPI spread over all the loans.

However, he's obviously too late to do this now well more than six months after the original complaint was considered.

BooJewels · 3 March 2018 at 10:47PM

I can't claim to understand their workings out, it looked very complicated, but it added up to significantly more than we expected and it was paid and I've spent it.

I didn't expect anything, so what we got was very much a bonus. I'd rung about a mortgage policy initially and they offered to look at these 5 loans that I'd actually forgotten about, so it seems churlish to complain that I didn't get enough.

It'll be interesting to see how this might play out.

BooJewels · 3 March 2018 at 10:56PM

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

I think so. The OP had a consolidation chain of loans which, unusually, had the original loan PPI complaint upheld and the subsequent ones rejected. So he's had a refund of the original PPI amount plus interest and (I assume) any associated interest carried over to the subsequent loans.

That's about the measure of it. I'm a she by the way.

Like you I suspect, if this were now I'd be recommending the OP to go to the Ombudsman with the original complaint result as I think he should have received back all the PPI spread over all the loans.

That's a shame, but I didn't expect anything and got £1200, so I don't think I have grounds to be bitter about it.

PPI Commission on old secured loans re: Plevin?

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free