Indigo Train Station PCN

jph572 · 14 February 2018 at 12:42AM

Hi

I received a "Notice to Owner" from Indigo PCN Admin centre (basically iPayMyPCN or ZZPS) for an offence allegedly committed on 20/09/2017.
I received the letter dated 01/02/2018 offering me chance to appeal. Which I did. It was then rejected with the exact same reason as the above (hineyb's post), but with no offer of another appeal to POPLA (no code supplied)).

I have since asked for a code, but no reply as yet.

My case is that they have accused the driver of my vehicle parking in a "Season Ticket Only" space before 0930hrs. Ticket was issued at 0911hrs. Driver actually paid for the ticket via a phone app at 0930hrs whilst on a train.

In my reply requesting a POPLA code, I noted that they failed to write to me within 56 days of the alleged offence, have they got a leg to stand on?

Thanks

jph572 · 14 February 2018 at 12:44AM

After emailing them, again asking for a Popla code and sending a copy of the first letter I have received about the issue, I received the following reply:

Good morning,

The back of our letters is a template that refers to Parking Charge Notices but does not apply to Penalty Notices issued under Railway Byelaw 14.

If you refer to your appeal rejection letter, it states that payment should be made within 7 days.

The original Penalty Notice was affixed to the vehicle on 20 September 2017, the matter was referred to us on 31 January 2018 and so our first letter was sent out on 01 February 2018.

In the absence of payment, this matter will be referred to our clients' solicitors.

Kind regards,
Leo Feather

pappa_golf · 14 February 2018 at 12:59AM

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73878071&postcount=41

no point in going thru this again and listening to zzps pathetic responses

The_Deep · 14 February 2018 at 12:27PM

Also read these

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5789847

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5786721

and Watch this

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain like Donald to your MP. If enough MPs support this Bill these scammers could be toast by Christmas.

nosferatu1001 · 14 February 2018 at 12:59PM

Ask them how a consumer is expected to know the difference
Ask them for what will this be reffered for - civil or magistrates court

You only have alittle time to get this past the 6 months

Coupon-mad · 14 February 2018 at 1:59PM

They have no legs to stand on and you just need to string it out to 6 months, like you will have read on all the other dozens of Indigo Railway threads here, doing the same. No POPLA.

Complain to your MP and that the BPA and Indigo have colluded to remove POPLA, seemingly because Indigo weren't winning, which they felt made the position untenable, so they just removed the ADR altogether...

financerulez · 15 February 2018 at 1:07AM

Notice to Owner? How do they know who the Owner is? You should have responded saying you are the Reg Keeper and reply as such. Not that it is likely to matter in your case.

Your aim is to run it past 6 months (20 March) - so just waste as much time as possible. Reply at the latest possible time to each of their letters, raise stupid questions, say their letter got lost in the post, etc. The other threads will provide good examples.

A good starting point could be asking them which specific byelaw they think has been breached. Also keep demanding a POPLA code. They won't give you one, but they offered independent adjudication, and you'd like to take them up on that offer. (Wastes more time) Also it!!!8217;s unclear who you are meant to be paying, another letter, another week goes by.

Think you're in a pretty good position:
If you!!!8217;ve admitted to being Owner, then there is a miniscule chance that they COULD prosecute you for a byelaw breach in the Mag Court, because there is so little clarity around ownership liability in the byelaws. I would bet everything I own that a prosecution would be unsuccessful against an Owner though. In the past (and we!!!8217;re talking 3 years ago and only East Midlands, Northern Rail, really IIRC) prosecutions had always included the RK admitting they were the driver.
BUT: It would need to be in the next 5 weeks, they can!!!8217;t pass your details to the TOC, they would have to pay for a private prosecution, they would receive none of the fine, they would have to win the case and we!!!8217;re unsure on the interpretation of the law on whether an Owner can even breach a byelaw (see Handbags late comments on my thread), there!!!8217;s not been a Mag Case against Owners for years (I have FOI!!!8217;d the MoJ to try and find out the stats)
So: Not very likely they!!!8217;re going to do that, and very likely they!!!8217;re just trying to scam you for money. Note they may still pursue you after 6 months, but at that point you can write back saying the deadline for prosecution has gone past, there is no chance of them succeeding, if they continue to contact you, you will sue them for harassment.

Umkomaas · 15 February 2018 at 8:47AM

Great input @financerulez. It's good to see someone new to the site providing assistance to others with helpful advice. Most newbies lap it up from the small number of regular contributors, then when we've got them off their charge, disappear for ever (or until they pick up another one!).

Fruitcake · 15 February 2018 at 10:39AM

Access to an independent appeal for not less than one year is your right as detailed in the Alternative Dispute Resolution Act (ADR) 2015.

Demand ADR, and complain to the BPA, DVLA, and your MP if they don't provide it.

These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

With reference to the bit in bold above, ask the BPA what they intend to do in order to change the minds of MPs and the motoring public.

The_Deep · 15 February 2018 at 10:46AM

Nip this scam in the bud, watch this video

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in robust terms to your MP. The PPC know their charges are unlawful, but until this scam industry is regulated they will continue to target the timid and vulnerable.

jph572 · 19 March 2018 at 9:31PM

Hi All

Just an update. Its now the 19th March, and I've received another letter from ZZPS (dated the 15th March) now stating:
"Our next course of action is to pass this account to the law firm QDR solicitors Limited. We would prefer to get to the bottom of this with you, without the need to use lawyers. However we are duty bound to advise you you that if this does get passed to solicitors, the balance owing will be increased by a further £36"

At what point does the 6 months bit come into play, with is the 20th March in this case? Is that the point of referring to solicitors? At what point are ZZPS allowed to give details to either the solicitors or the Railway company (the client)...

Do I just still ignore?

Thanks

Indigo Train Station PCN

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