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  • FIRST POST
    • bluenun
    • By bluenun 4th Jan 18, 2:07 PM
    • 183Posts
    • 16Thanks
    bluenun
    Working tax credits
    • #1
    • 4th Jan 18, 2:07 PM
    Working tax credits 4th Jan 18 at 2:07 PM
    I have closed my claim for ESA and called the council to let them know of my change of circumstances.

    As I am going self employed, the man I spoke to from the council said I may qualify for working tax credits.

    Universal Credit does not start in this area until in March 2018.

    Having just completed the online calculator it appears I do not qualify because I am not working any hours yet as today is my first day.

    I would be eligible for WTC if I worked over 30 hours. I will be doing that but have not started yet.

    Could I claim because I will be working 30 plus hours a week even if it is only delivering leaflets until work comes in?
Page 1
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 4th Jan 18, 2:47 PM
    • 1,911 Posts
    • 1,773 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #2
    • 4th Jan 18, 2:47 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jan 18, 2:47 PM
    I have closed my claim for ESA and called the council to let them know of my change of circumstances.

    As I am going self employed, the man I spoke to from the council said I may qualify for working tax credits.

    Universal Credit does not start in this area until in March 2018.

    Having just completed the online calculator it appears I do not qualify because I am not working any hours yet as today is my first day.

    I would be eligible for WTC if I worked over 30 hours. I will be doing that but have not started yet.

    Could I claim because I will be working 30 plus hours a week even if it is only delivering leaflets until work comes in?
    Originally posted by bluenun
    As you were claiming ESA then you would be eligable for disabled working tax credits so would only need to work a minimum 16 hours. As you're self employed For tax credit purposes, HMRC define self-employed as meaning the self-employed activity is done on a commercial basis with a view to realising a profit and it must be organised and regular.

    See this https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-do-tax-credits-work/self-employed/
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 4th Jan 18, 3:13 PM
    • 4,819 Posts
    • 3,129 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 18, 3:13 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 18, 3:13 PM
    As you were claiming ESA then you would be eligable for disabled working tax credits so would only need to work a minimum 16 hours. As you're self employed For tax credit purposes, HMRC define self-employed as meaning the self-employed activity is done on a commercial basis with a view to realising a profit and it must be organised and regular.

    See this https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-do-tax-credits-work/self-employed/
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    Claiming ESA doesnít give someone automatic entitlement to the disability element of WTC. Itís entitely possible to claim ESA without a disability.

    The criteria for the disability element is here - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/645408/TC956_Disability_Helpsheet.pdf
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 4th Jan 18, 3:17 PM
    • 4,819 Posts
    • 3,129 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 18, 3:17 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 18, 3:17 PM
    There’s info here on what counts for calculating hours worked - https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/tax-credits-technical-manual/tctm02453

    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/claimant-compliance-manual/ccm6755
    • bluenun
    • By bluenun 5th Jan 18, 12:32 PM
    • 183 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    bluenun
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 18, 12:32 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 18, 12:32 PM
    Thank-you for the replies.

    My time is being spent,
    Researching tools and equipment needed for the work.
    Pricing up and buying the tools and equipment.
    Getting prices for paperwork to be printed.
    Leaflet dropping when the stationary arrives.
    Door knocking.
    Setting up self assessment, and government gateway access.
    Keeping paperwork up to date.
    Reading online how best to run this business.

    I am not sure if that would cover the needed 30 hours a week.

    I was thinking I could order the form online which can take up to 2 weeks to arrive.
    By then I will have my leaflets to drop and know if I will get any work coming in.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 5th Jan 18, 12:43 PM
    • 789 Posts
    • 1,415 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    • #6
    • 5th Jan 18, 12:43 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jan 18, 12:43 PM
    The actions you list can count towards the thirty hours, but realistically everything other than the leaflet dropping will be completed very quickly.

    Have you looked into the returns on leaflets? It's not clear what industry you're looking at, but the majority of them are likely to be binned. Have you looked at Facebook and local groups on there for advertising?
    • bluenun
    • By bluenun 5th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    • 183 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    bluenun
    • #7
    • 5th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    Thanks for the reply Boris.

    Yes I understand not to expect better than 0.1% so maybe 1 enquiry per thousand leaflets dropped.
    My business is in the cleaning industry.
    I will follow up a couple of days later by knocking on doors and canvassing.

    I have always steered clear of social media and Facebook but did make a page last week for my business and will list on Google business so that I will show up on a local search.

    A friend will be my first customer next week and in time her sister too.

    I do find paperwork takes up a lot of my time, I want to make sure I do everything correctly so that when I go to complete my tax return online it wont be so difficult.

    Also I am using an auction site to source my tools and equipment and I spend hours looking for the best deals.

    But your opinion makes me realise that the person who looks at my WTC form may also feel as you do that the activities I listed should not take me so long.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 6th Jan 18, 1:27 PM
    • 4,174 Posts
    • 3,131 Thanks
    sheramber
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 18, 1:27 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 18, 1:27 PM
    Keep a diary of what you do and how long it takes you. That gives you proof of how many hours you are claiming.
    • Corporal Perkins
    • By Corporal Perkins 6th Jan 18, 1:36 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 305 Thanks
    Corporal Perkins
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 18, 1:36 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 18, 1:36 PM
    Thank-you for the replies.

    My time is being spent,
    Researching tools and equipment needed for the work.
    Pricing up and buying the tools and equipment.
    Getting prices for paperwork to be printed.
    Leaflet dropping when the stationary arrives.
    Door knocking.
    Setting up self assessment, and government gateway access.
    Keeping paperwork up to date.
    Reading online how best to run this business.

    I am not sure if that would cover the needed 30 hours a week.

    I was thinking I could order the form online which can take up to 2 weeks to arrive.
    By then I will have my leaflets to drop and know if I will get any work coming in.
    Originally posted by bluenun
    With due respect and giving the benefit of the doubt that you aren't trying to be one of the typical business set up which are purely there to maximise tax credits etc, most of what you have put down should have been done before you even considered going self employed.

    If the list takes up 30hrs of your time how are you ever going to find the time to actually do the work that earns the wages because most of what you have listed won't earn you a bean?.......... Sorry to say I'm sceptical but I do have almost 35yrs of running a business.
    Last edited by Corporal Perkins; 06-01-2018 at 1:38 PM.
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 6th Jan 18, 2:52 PM
    • 3,488 Posts
    • 2,371 Thanks
    Icequeen99
    The setting up doesn't normally count towards the tax credits remunerative work requirement.

    See for example https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/claimant-compliance-manual/ccm6750

    IQ
    • bluenun
    • By bluenun 6th Jan 18, 6:25 PM
    • 183 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    bluenun
    The setting up doesn't normally count towards the tax credits remunerative work requirement.

    See for example https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/claimant-compliance-manual/ccm6750

    IQ
    Originally posted by Icequeen99
    Thank-you for the link.

    I am pleased because today I have managed to secure 8 hours of work per week. More on the horizon.

    I feel better knowing I will have some income so wont bother with claiming WTC.
    It feels great to have signed off ESA and would rather manage without WTC.
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