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  • FIRST POST
    • robbedofmymoney
    • By robbedofmymoney 6th Nov 17, 8:36 AM
    • 864Posts
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    robbedofmymoney
    lloyds Credit card PPI - success
    • #1
    • 6th Nov 17, 8:36 AM
    lloyds Credit card PPI - success 6th Nov 17 at 8:36 AM
    hi
    i'm after some advice,
    i've recently been successful in claiming a PPI refund on my Credit card.


    after using some of the various spreadsheets around to calculate the redress it would appear that Lloyds have not included any of the compound interest that would have been charged to the premiums when they have stated they have put the account into the position it would have been. does anyone know if this is normal for them to do it this way.


    I will ask them for a full itemised worksheet which they have offered to provide in their letter and go from their.


    either way its a nice amount to get back.
    Barclaycard PPI £7,500, upheld
    Capitol One PPI £1,796 compound int £1,826 and 8% £1,642
    Lloyds LPI £3,400, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £2,500, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £7,500, upheld
Page 1
    • -taff
    • By -taff 6th Nov 17, 10:09 PM
    • 7,170 Posts
    • 5,160 Thanks
    -taff
    • #2
    • 6th Nov 17, 10:09 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Nov 17, 10:09 PM
    Redress for credit cards is different to loans.
    No compound interest is ever applied, only simple.
    http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi/redress.html
    • brown1950
    • By brown1950 7th Nov 17, 1:04 AM
    • 224 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    brown1950
    • #3
    • 7th Nov 17, 1:04 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Nov 17, 1:04 AM
    Redress for credit cards is different to loans.
    No compound interest is ever applied, only simple.
    http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi/redress.html
    Originally posted by -taff
    We have a paradox here :-

    Quote from FOS :-


    Quote ''When we uphold a consumer's complaint, we usually tell the financial business to put the consumer in the position they would now be in if the original problem that led to the complaint hadn't happened.

    When we uphold a complaint about the sale of a PPI policy, we usually tell the business to put the consumer in the position they would now be in if they hadn't taken out the PPI policy. ''Unquote''

    Therefore it follows as Barclaycard (example) have admitted that the PPI premiums are compounded every month then according to the FOS (see above) compensation should include compound interest. ?
    • rq9292
    • By rq9292 7th Nov 17, 3:57 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    rq9292
    • #4
    • 7th Nov 17, 3:57 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Nov 17, 3:57 PM
    I think the compounding is accounted for. There are 3 main parts to your refund:
    The refund of premiums will include all premiums paid including any PPI compounded due to not clearing the balance in full every month
    Debit interest will include all interest paid due to the increase in the balance due to PPI
    Simple interest paid is designed to correct for inflation from the time when the PPI was paid
    • robbedofmymoney
    • By robbedofmymoney 7th Nov 17, 8:13 PM
    • 864 Posts
    • 1,569 Thanks
    robbedofmymoney
    • #5
    • 7th Nov 17, 8:13 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Nov 17, 8:13 PM
    thanks for the posts.


    i'll ask for the breakdown of the calculation and go through it to ensure its correct.


    I have done the calc myself and the ppi premiums and simple interest are within a knats whisker of what Lloyds have paid into my account, however Lloyds have not mentioned anything about compound interest which I have also calculated.


    I will check the calcs when I get them and query it if they have ignored it. - i'll keep you posted.


    for reference, Capitol one paid the ppi premiums, the compound interest and the simple interest so there seems to be a discrepancy between banks/card companies on how they make the calculations.
    Barclaycard PPI £7,500, upheld
    Capitol One PPI £1,796 compound int £1,826 and 8% £1,642
    Lloyds LPI £3,400, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £2,500, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £7,500, upheld
    • robbedofmymoney
    • By robbedofmymoney 23rd Nov 17, 4:55 PM
    • 864 Posts
    • 1,569 Thanks
    robbedofmymoney
    • #6
    • 23rd Nov 17, 4:55 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Nov 17, 4:55 PM
    just a quick update.


    I have had the full calculation breakdown sent to me by Lloyds, although it was in miniature as they have put an entire xl spreadsheet on an A4 piece of paper, good job I've got a magnifying glass lol


    I was under the impression that the calculation should be in accordance with the guidance given in PS 10/12, this is the same as the FOS approach as listed on their website.


    it would seem Lloyds have interpreted the method slightly different to suit them.


    is PS 10/12 and the method listed with a given example (example 6) still relevant.


    just after some clarification before I go to the FOS as if it is still relevant i'll use the exact same spreadsheet as per the example when I send in my complaint.


    thanks in advance for your help
    Barclaycard PPI £7,500, upheld
    Capitol One PPI £1,796 compound int £1,826 and 8% £1,642
    Lloyds LPI £3,400, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £2,500, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £7,500, upheld
    • rq9292
    • By rq9292 25th Nov 17, 11:32 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    rq9292
    • #7
    • 25th Nov 17, 11:32 AM
    • #7
    • 25th Nov 17, 11:32 AM
    Given that the document is dated 2010 I can't imagine it is still up to date now. The calculators banks use will have been updated many times over since then.

    The example 6 given looks nothing like how the calculator will actually work. One thing I don't understand is why it only adds on simple interest when the notional balance is positive. In reality a customer could never have a positive notional balance and would still be owed simple interest to account for the time value of money and inflation effect on the premiums and debit (compound) interest paid.
    • rq9292
    • By rq9292 25th Nov 17, 11:40 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    rq9292
    • #8
    • 25th Nov 17, 11:40 AM
    • #8
    • 25th Nov 17, 11:40 AM
    If you have any questions about the calculation breakdown then let know. They can be quite misleading as they give the impression that the bank has less data then they actually have because the key that explains where the numbers came from is poorly explained.
    • robbedofmymoney
    • By robbedofmymoney 25th Nov 17, 12:13 PM
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    robbedofmymoney
    • #9
    • 25th Nov 17, 12:13 PM
    • #9
    • 25th Nov 17, 12:13 PM
    thanks for the reply,
    the way the fos describe how to do it in their first statement is exactly as per PS10/12, however they go on to say that they will allow other methods and give some examples.


    luckily I have all of the information regarding premiums, balances, interest and payments made.


    I've managed to transfer the bank calc to a spreadsheet, I need to now go over the detail and check their "calculated" numbers against actual


    their method comes up with a different number to the method I had used above.


    as I have all of the information I may spend some time and actually work out when the premium was paid off based on order of payment allocation along with the interest charged, then work out simple interest from point of payment.


    I think i'll do that calc/sheet and then if that option is near to Lloyds figures then i'll accept they are correct, but if its nearer the other one i'll send it all to the FOS to un-tangle.


    my gripe is that if I run the account without ppi and apply all of my exact payments as made by me then the account is in credit and I would not have paid interest for a long periods of time.
    Barclaycard PPI £7,500, upheld
    Capitol One PPI £1,796 compound int £1,826 and 8% £1,642
    Lloyds LPI £3,400, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £2,500, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £7,500, upheld
    • rq9292
    • By rq9292 26th Nov 17, 1:53 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    rq9292
    Good luck, I'll be interested to hear your own calculation results.

    As I understand it if the account would've been in credit then you should get all the interest paid back for that period. The sum of premiums paid will be a fairly small proportion of the overall redress compared to normal.
    • robbedofmymoney
    • By robbedofmymoney 27th Nov 17, 1:20 PM
    • 864 Posts
    • 1,569 Thanks
    robbedofmymoney
    its been an interesting exercise working out these numbers


    I've re-worked the account based on orders of payments and it works out at a slightly lower amount than I have been offered/paid


    so its decision time, do I just accept it or do I refer it to the FOS on the basis that I only have one credit card account and if all my payments are applied to this account and the ppi removed then I would have been in a position where I would have been in credit on my only account for a long time, and would not have racked up interest charges


    the wording states that the bank should put the person back into the financial position they would have been in had the ppi not been added.
    Barclaycard PPI £7,500, upheld
    Capitol One PPI £1,796 compound int £1,826 and 8% £1,642
    Lloyds LPI £3,400, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £2,500, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £7,500, upheld
    • rq9292
    • By rq9292 28th Nov 17, 6:11 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    rq9292
    I don't think going to the FOS will achieve much given that they have upheld the complaint. The bank will have applied the same methodology to your complaint as all others and since you've already proven that the total is in the right ball park then I can't see you getting any more.

    If you do go to the FOS then the bank will just send the same breakdown along with screenshots of where they got the policy start date from etc.
    • robbedofmymoney
    • By robbedofmymoney 29th Nov 17, 5:23 PM
    • 864 Posts
    • 1,569 Thanks
    robbedofmymoney
    after considerable thought I have decided to refer this to the FOS as the "notional account" is based on assumptions.
    basically the bank have made their assumptions, and if I make alternative assumptions, and make higher payments on the notional account like I did on my original account (which the bank has not done) then this comes up with a different number.


    in fact you can play with the numbers all day long and increase/decrease payments to suit how you want the account to end up looking. the variation based on what I actually paid (in the months I paid them) and still keeping the account with an outstanding balance all the way through the calculation varies drastically from just below the amount paid to me and upto 5k more. so who is right, me, the bank, or somewhere in between.


    I have struggled to get it lower than what the bank has got so they have applied lower payments than I made to keep the interest figure higher.


    I am only able to do this as I have all my records going back to 1998, the bank records go back to 2000.
    Barclaycard PPI £7,500, upheld
    Capitol One PPI £1,796 compound int £1,826 and 8% £1,642
    Lloyds LPI £3,400, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £2,500, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £7,500, upheld
    • rq9292
    • By rq9292 9th Dec 17, 2:04 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    rq9292
    You should send copies of the pre 2000 statements to the bank and ask them to recalculate you offer. The FOS process could taken a year to complete so you will have plenty of time to do this and the bank won't rescind the initial offer if it is higher than the new one.
    • robbedofmymoney
    • By robbedofmymoney 9th Dec 17, 2:49 PM
    • 864 Posts
    • 1,569 Thanks
    robbedofmymoney
    Thanks

    They paid the money Into my account the day their respinse is dated, as they have stated that this claim has been closed as far as they are concerned so luckily I won't be waiting for the money while the complaint is with the fos aboit their calculation assumptions

    They didnt ask me whether or not i agreed to their offer, merely stated they have put the account into a position it could have been in had ppi not been on the account

    They are adamant they are correct in their assumptions so I think it will be down to the fos to decide in terms of how i woulld have spent my extra money, me or the bank.

    The notional account balance can vary drastically using various assumptions, no e of tye assumptions involve higher payments than i have actually made but the redress value can vary by many thousands of pounds

    The main difference being the compound interest applied to tye account
    Barclaycard PPI £7,500, upheld
    Capitol One PPI £1,796 compound int £1,826 and 8% £1,642
    Lloyds LPI £3,400, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £2,500, upheld
    Lloyds LPI £7,500, upheld
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