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  • FIRST POST
    • Tango1947
    • By Tango1947 6th Oct 17, 3:53 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Tango1947
    Number plate cameras
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 17, 3:53 PM
    Number plate cameras 6th Oct 17 at 3:53 PM
    Deleted .......
    Last edited by Tango1947; 08-10-2017 at 9:16 AM. Reason: Deletion
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Oct 17, 4:05 PM
    • 16,923 Posts
    • 21,046 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 17, 4:05 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 17, 4:05 PM
    POFA2012 allows for up to 14 days to notify a keeper (not driver) of a charge, a pcn , where ANPR cameras are used (and where no windscreen ticket was issued, had that happened they would notify a keeper between day 29 and day 56 according to POFA2012 - so an even longer delay)

    this info from four months ago tells people about keeping tickets for say 3 months , so you missed that too

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2017/05/30/throwing-pay-display-ticket-away-use-cost-100/

    and this parking prankster blog a few years ago explains ANPR cameras

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/how-parking-operators-use-anpr.html
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 6th Oct 17, 4:36 PM
    • 3,237 Posts
    • 3,524 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 4:36 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 17, 4:36 PM
    I knew in my mind that I had bought a ticket and searched around in my car and luckily found the ticket which had correct reg no, data and time and fee paid.

    Of course I have appealed and am awaiting response to my letter.
    Originally posted by Tango1947
    I hope you've checked the ticket your purchased closely? Any 'O's you may have entered as a zero or 'I's entered as a number one (or vice versa)? If so you may not find it as easy to get cancelled as you may think.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Oct 17, 5:21 PM
    • 16,923 Posts
    • 21,046 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 17, 5:21 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 17, 5:21 PM
    that point is not "irrelevant" because anyone else searching this forum for information may not keep tickets and may learn from the info provided

    and discrepancies like the VRM typos feature a lot in this particular field

    you said you could not find the info you needed so I pointed you (and anyone else) at the correct info (partly because you brought up those 2 points). I have posted those links and the info many times before on here, which is why I found the info again so quickly (so despite your quick search , the info was on this forum in previous threads)

    nobody is bothered about you being a newbie, there is a lot to learn and you have grasped most of the issues here , I was filling in the blanks with my 5 years of experience , bearing in mind that the ANPR issues were covered years ago as that prankster blog is over 3.5 years old, plus POFA2012 is now a 5 year old law

    and you are quite right that these sc@mmers should do "due diligence" checks and should have seen that a ticket was purchased, even if some of the info was incorrect (you say its correct info , they beg to differ because they sent you an NTK that says no payment was even made , never mind typo issues)

    they seem to do stuff like this all the time , PLUS its also a fact that those machines are flawed and despite any human checks they are alleging non-payment

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/peel-centre-machine-failure-transcript.html

    There are a number of known errors with parking machines, and it is not the motorists fault when these errors occur. The Peel centre is particularly prone. It is probably the worst run car park in the whole country, as a disproportionate proportion of The Prankster's mailbag is taken up with complaints about this car park.
    a different car park - yes, but the faults apply to all p & d ticket machines

    and to err is human , hence the failure of any human checks (or greed) - I suppose the sheer numbers of pcn,s issued means its all roboclaim territory

    so as long as you appeal AS KEEPER (not as driver), using the template appeal and also adding a paragraph that THE DRIVER paid for a ticket and attached is the proof of payment (a scan or pic of the ticket) , then you are rebuking them for their incompetence and lack of due diligence and trying to shame them into submission espite their website claims

    if they were honourable , honest people , they would cancel the pcn , if not , you could have them for a DPA breach when you win , due to the incompetence you have pointed out being compounded by a refusal to accept it in the face of overwhelming evidence

    sadly, these matters tend to go a lot further and that is why you may have more difficulty in proving your point (correctly) and getting a cancellation , it may even go as far as a court case where you can present your views and ticket to a judge

    your logic is the same as mine , sadly I have learned over the years that this is in a minority with these parking company sc@mmers , they chase profit using greed and avarice and they think that all their victims are ignorant pleasants ripe for the plucking

    its a sc@mmers paradise , which is why I started learning about it over 5 years ago , to protect my family and friends , as well as myself , so welcome to the club
    Last edited by Redx; 06-10-2017 at 6:15 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 7th Oct 17, 9:39 AM
    • 3,237 Posts
    • 3,524 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:39 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:39 AM
    that point is not "irrelevant" because anyone else searching this forum for information may not keep tickets and may learn from the info provided

    and discrepancies like the VRM typos feature a lot in this particular field.
    Originally posted by Redx
    You mean like this?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4956452/Father-faces-court-not-paying-free-car-park-s-fine.html
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Oct 17, 10:02 AM
    • 7,422 Posts
    • 6,472 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:02 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:02 AM
    As this is an alleged debt, the only way the PPC can get a penny out of you is to take you to court. If you can prove that you have paid, then they will lose.


    You can then ask the judge for your costs and, of he thinks the PPC has acted unreasonably, compensation, and possibly sue them for Data Protection Act breaches.


    If you are an awkward cuss, you could cost them hundreds of pounds.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
    • 4,757 Posts
    • 3,107 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
    Tango, you really need to edit your posts to remove any clues to the identity of the driver.

    This part of your original post should be:
    So last week my car was parked on one of these car parks, owned by a local restaurant and policed by Euro Car Parks. The driver entered they correct reg, paid the fee and left the ticket on the windscreen.

    Nine days later I received a PCN...
    Please review your whole post similarly.

    I hope you didn't give away the identity of the driver when you appealed.
    .
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 7th Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    • 747 Posts
    • 1,383 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    You're getting too technical. You have a ticket with the correct registration entered.

    It is not unduly onerous to undertake manual checks of the small number of cases where the ANPR does not tally with the registrations entered on ticket machines BEFORE requesting information from the DVLA (hence The Deep referring to a potential DPA claim).

    If they are going to say that there is no record of your vehicle, then you must require them to produce (in addition to all of the usual chain of contracts) a log of all vehicle registrations to evidence that your vehicle details do not appear. That is not any infringement of personal data because registration numbers are outwardly displayed on vehicles, so there would be no reason not to provide it in support of their case.

    Since you have a ticket there is already no financial loss to any party. There is no breach of contract either. The continued pursuit of this is unreasonable.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Oct 17, 9:04 PM
    • 15,928 Posts
    • 24,711 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:04 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:04 PM
    This is a completely unregulated sector where anything which can trip the motorist up, to provide a PPC with the opportunity to extract £100 from him/her, goes. Thereís nothing to say whether a 33mm gap is correct or not, or whether or not itís a punctuation mark or not - and is somewhat moot (and largely irrelevant in the context of a PPC chasing you for wonga).

    Youíre overthinking this and the forum isnít likely to become overly involved in chewing the cud over hypothetical scenarios. It just needs dealing with - as per the NEWBIES FAQ sticky.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Oct 17, 9:32 PM
    • 40,521 Posts
    • 80,917 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Tango, you still need to edit your posts to remove information about who did what. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper. We don't advise this sort of thing for fun. It is very important as parking scammers monitor these fora and have been known to use the information against victims.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Oct 17, 11:46 PM
    • 16,923 Posts
    • 21,046 Thanks
    Redx
    as above

    it was THE DRIVER that typed in whatever into the machine

    you have already been linked to info on typical ticket machines failures

    you are definitely overthinking this , as johnersh says

    just DEAL with it , dont speculate, its their task to prove their case , if their machines do or dont allow spaces that is THEIR problem

    if they failed to do manual checks looking for any close matches , that is THEIR problem

    the driver typed in the VRM details in good faith, and there is a written record that can be shown to prove your case for the defence, nothing else matters (so deal with it , dont ruminate over it)
    Last edited by Redx; 08-10-2017 at 8:06 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Tango1947
    • By Tango1947 8th Oct 17, 9:19 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Tango1947
    Sorry guys, but decided this forum is not for me.

    I have deleted all my previous messages, which unfortunately may leave a confusing thread.

    I would delete my account, but it appears that there is no option to do this!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Oct 17, 9:58 AM
    • 15,928 Posts
    • 24,711 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Sorry guys, but decided this forum is not for me.

    I have deleted all my previous messages, which unfortunately may leave a confusing thread.

    I would delete my account, but it appears that there is no option to do this!
    Originally posted by Tango1947
    Last Tango in Parking!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Oct 17, 9:59 AM
    • 7,422 Posts
    • 6,472 Thanks
    The Deep
    Is it something we said?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Oct 17, 12:30 PM
    • 4,757 Posts
    • 3,107 Thanks
    KeithP
    What a waste of everyone's time that was.
    .
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