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  • FIRST POST
    • lindabea
    • By lindabea 22nd Sep 17, 3:31 PM
    • 936Posts
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    lindabea
    ID Verification
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 17, 3:31 PM
    ID Verification 22nd Sep 17 at 3:31 PM
    I tried to open a VM Reg saver 7 last week, and to my surprise, I was asked to submit certified copies to confirm my id. Now, I already have several accounts with VM and I can't recall ever, being asked to send any hard copies when opening any of my previous savings accounts/investments with any organisation.

    When I rang in to speak TO VM, they told me that the electronic checks they made have failed and Experian require additional data but VM don't know what or more to the point, they can't tell me!! All this makes me very suspicious - I am wondering if it's anything to do with brexit or this new Open Banking app which apparently comes out in Jan 2018.

    Has anyone else experienced this request for additional ID's recently?
    Before doing something... do nothing
Page 1
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 22nd Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    • 89,852 Posts
    • 55,455 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    When I rang in to speak TO VM, they told me that the electronic checks they made have failed and Experian require additional data
    Experian have no requirement there. They may use Experian's money laundering ID check service but its up to firms to interpret the outcome of that check. Experian dont give two hoots. What the person is really saying is that you failed to pass VM's criteria using the electronic ID check and they are reverting to the old ID method of actual documents.
    I am wondering if it's anything to do with brexit or this new Open Banking app which apparently comes out in Jan 2018.
    Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it. There is a major change coming in 2018 under MiFID II (an EU directive) which the UK is following to the letter. However, ID checks are not part of that.

    Firms are required to carry out ID checks. ID check requirements have changed in recent years. So, maybe what you had before was fine then but not now. Maybe you have moved address from when they last ran a proper check and they only have stuff on file from before then. Maybe you passed old electronic checks but something on your file is causing a failure now.

    Has anyone else experienced this request for additional ID's recently?
    yes they have. happens all the time someone fails the electronic check.
    • lindabea
    • By lindabea 22nd Sep 17, 4:57 PM
    • 936 Posts
    • 132 Thanks
    lindabea
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 17, 4:57 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 17, 4:57 PM
    What the person is really saying is that you failed to pass VM's criteria using the electronic ID check and they are reverting to the old ID method of actual documents.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Thanks for your reply. This is exactly what concerns me. How is it that I have passed VM electronic checks criteria in the past (on several occasions) and also other banks, previous successful check with VM was 2 months ago, and yet, all of a sudden, their checks fail. The man at VM didn't know why it failed - apparently, the system doesn't tell them.

    I haven't moved - been living at current address for last 11 years, I'm on the electoral register. As far as I know, my data has not changed. However, that said, could it be that some database at Experian may have got corrupt or someone tried to use my name and now it's being flagged up on some fraud database. What really worries me in situations like this, is that i am not being told what is wrong. I feel something has gone wrong, and I'm being excluded from knowing.
    Before doing something... do nothing
    • frenchplonka
    • By frenchplonka 22nd Sep 17, 5:14 PM
    • 263 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    frenchplonka
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 17, 5:14 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 17, 5:14 PM
    if your worried about what info they have when running a check just get a copy of your credit report see if anything has changed

    it really isnt that big a deal
    Sealed Pot Challenge 10 - #571
    • frenchplonka
    • By frenchplonka 22nd Sep 17, 5:17 PM
    • 263 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    frenchplonka
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 17, 5:17 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 17, 5:17 PM
    Also VM dont have to explain why u failed or what information they hold that caused you to fail
    Sealed Pot Challenge 10 - #571
    • lindabea
    • By lindabea 22nd Sep 17, 5:28 PM
    • 936 Posts
    • 132 Thanks
    lindabea
    • #6
    • 22nd Sep 17, 5:28 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Sep 17, 5:28 PM
    Also VM dont have to explain why u failed or what information they hold that caused you to fail
    Originally posted by frenchplonka
    I thought the Data Protection Act gives me the right for their data to be disclosed to me
    Before doing something... do nothing
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 22nd Sep 17, 6:17 PM
    • 6,741 Posts
    • 12,011 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    • #7
    • 22nd Sep 17, 6:17 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Sep 17, 6:17 PM
    I thought the Data Protection Act gives me the right for their data to be disclosed to me
    Originally posted by lindabea
    It does, so you can make a standard subject access request to Virgin Money to ask them to let you know what personal data they hold about you. They can charge you up to £10 for that. You could also ask Experian for a copy of your credit report, and they can charge you up to £2 for a paper copy in the post.

    However, asking them what pieces of personal data they hold for you does not change the fact that they don't consider your identity to have been fully "verified" in line with their current processes and procedures. After requesting your personal data from them under a subject access request, simply receiving back the personal data from them under your data protection act request does not tell you their thought process or business rationale for seeking some identity documents in your particular circumstances. The "data" you would get back would not include a detailed analysis of their business methods and thought processes and risk models and rationales for dealing with certain customer circumstances, because those things are *their* personal information about how they operate their business. A big file of confidential business operational procedures and strategic planning documents and departmental manuals is not "your data".

    So, where you are now is that they haven't completed their customer identity process (which their compliance department requires them to do, under procedures and frameworks they established in reaction to UK financial regulations). You know what documents they would like to receive from you to complete that process. So, the next step for you is clear: send them the information which will help to confirm your identity, and then it's done.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 22-09-2017 at 6:32 PM. Reason: Added more explanation
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 22nd Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    • 89,852 Posts
    • 55,455 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    Thanks for your reply. This is exactly what concerns me. How is it that I have passed VM electronic checks criteria in the past (on several occasions) and also other banks, previous successful check with VM was 2 months ago, and yet, all of a sudden, their checks fail. The man at VM didn't know why it failed - apparently, the system doesn't tell them.
    I have used the Experian one in the past. it gives very little data. Effectively, it is a scoring system and firms can decide the pass score. Usually that means there are different pass levels. For example, a score below a certain level could be an automatic referral to their money laundering department. A slightly higher score may just be insufficient or contradicting information. A score higher up but not a full pass may need supplementary extra info.

    I thought the Data Protection Act gives me the right for their data to be disclosed to me
    it does. However, as VM dont have that data, they cannot give it to you. The same act prevents that data being passed to VM. VM just get the score and a few codes. Not the actual data that results in that score.

    I haven't moved - been living at current address for last 11 years, I'm on the electoral register. As far as I know, my data has not changed. However, that said, could it be that some database at Experian may have got corrupt or someone tried to use my name and now it's being flagged up on some fraud database. What really worries me in situations like this, is that i am not being told what is wrong. I feel something has gone wrong, and I'm being excluded from knowing.
    You are not excluded from knowing. You can sign up for an experian report and see if there is incorrect data.

    I had a few Experian failures in my time using them and there is a good reason we dont use them any more. When you did get a failure that suggested a data error, we would ring Experian who would say we cant tell you. So, we would ask the client to ring. They would speak to Experian who would tell them there was nothing wrong with the data and when they run the same enquiry it passed. They would pass the blame back to us for not doing it properly. I always suspected they cleaned the fault and didnt admit there was an issue.

    Where someone fails who may have passed in years before, it could solely be down to data dropping off and nothing more up-to-date being held. They can only retain data that is current for 6 years. So, applications made 7 years ago would no longer be on there. If you have gone a long period without credit agreements, there may not be much on the file any more. It may be that VM didnt use Experian previously and their old method passed you but the new one doesnt.
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 22nd Sep 17, 6:31 PM
    • 2,273 Posts
    • 1,473 Thanks
    Vortigern
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 17, 6:31 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 17, 6:31 PM
    Has anyone else experienced this request for additional ID's recently?
    Originally posted by lindabea
    Last time I failed an automatic check, it was because I'd mistyped my date of birth. That's what the bank (not Virgin) told me. Once I'd confirmed the correct date, they amended the application for me.

    Could you have mis-typed something?
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 22nd Sep 17, 7:39 PM
    • 897 Posts
    • 744 Thanks
    LHW99
    I know 1st Direct suddenly came up for air a year or so ago and needed additional ID for my OH - for a current account that has been open and in use for over 20 years. Not sure what they thought I'd done with him .....
    • ctdctd
    • By ctdctd 12th Oct 17, 3:03 PM
    • 845 Posts
    • 656 Thanks
    ctdctd
    I've just failed an Equifax ID Verification when applying for an account with the Chorley B/S.

    They told me it said date of birth mismatch.
    This is despite passing the same check in April with the same B/S and having an existing account.
    I have not moved in 20+ years and, as far as I know, have not changed my date of birth!

    Tried phoning Equifax - all they could suggest was starting their 30 day trial, running a credit report, and checking for errors.
    I have a credit report from a previous trial a couple of years ago and all my details are fine.
    Before they would speak to me, I had to confirm my date of birth which was correct!!!

    Equifax online let me start another trial so I've run a new credit report - my DoB and all other info is fine - I can even see that Chorley have run two ID checks!

    Binned the savings application - not worth the hassle!
    Last edited by ctdctd; 12-10-2017 at 3:17 PM.
    Do Money Saving sites make you buy more bargains - and spend more money?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 12th Oct 17, 3:34 PM
    • 89,852 Posts
    • 55,455 Thanks
    dunstonh
    I have not moved in 20+ years and, as far as I know, have not changed my date of birth!
    But has someone submitted an application using the wrong date of birth in that time?

    I cannot recall a DOB error resulting in a fail. Its usually just a notification point rather than a failure point.
    • ctdctd
    • By ctdctd 12th Oct 17, 3:41 PM
    • 845 Posts
    • 656 Thanks
    ctdctd
    But has someone submitted an application using the wrong date of birth in that time?

    I cannot recall a DOB error resulting in a fail. Its usually just a notification point rather than a failure point.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    There are various other searches showing since April which presumably were OK as I haven't been refused anything else.
    The only other flag they mentioned was "political" which they say would show if I was something in politics which I most defiantly am not. This does not show at all on my credit report.

    I shall remain confused as if I can't see any error, I can't moan to anyone about it.
    Do Money Saving sites make you buy more bargains - and spend more money?
    • Novice investor101
    • By Novice investor101 12th Oct 17, 9:02 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Novice investor101
    Money laundering rules were tightened up hugely in July this year. Any firm dealing with incoming or outgoing money needs to be a lot more stringent with the checks they do to verify where that money came from & where it's going to. All the banks & finance companies have interpreted their own way of staying compliant. So you may have flown through the checks June & then failed the ones in July. Get used to it, it's here to stay...
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 13th Oct 17, 9:51 AM
    • 3,076 Posts
    • 4,453 Thanks
    Malthusian
    .
    The only other flag they mentioned was "political" which they say would show if I was something in politics which I most defiantly am not.
    Originally posted by ctdctd
    It would also show if you have the same name as someone who is in politics. Which quite a lot of people do.

    Depending on what databases they use, having the same name as the husband of the Jamaican ambassador to Turkmenistan can be enough to trigger a flag against the "Politically Exposed Person" line which a member of staff then has to manually check and discount.
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