Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 12th Sep 17, 1:52 PM
    • 26Posts
    • 18Thanks
    Jeff123
    CEL Ltd default CCJ! Pls help!
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 17, 1:52 PM
    CEL Ltd default CCJ! Pls help! 12th Sep 17 at 1:52 PM
    Hello everybody.
    I am yet another victim of CEL ltd. Have received a ccj without knowledge of any wrong doing!
    I received a letter from the bank to check my credit file as they removed my overdraft. I logged in and found out that i have a ccj!
    I called the court, they don't have much information except the name of the company and their telephone details. The courts didn't even know what the judgment was about etc. I googled the company and found out that it is a private parking firm, tried to call them but no luck, only a payment automated line was available. Left a message on other line, it went on voicemail, left a message but not received any communication from them!
    Luckily i came across this website and found out that i am not the only one to have experienced this.
    The story goes, the alleged incident happened on 28th March 2016, i moved house on 15th April 2016, i had royal mail mail redirection setup for 3 months after that, and in all this time i haven't received any PCN from CEL, so have been totally unaware of this whole shebang, the judgement date was 27th March 2017 for £350.!
    I read Saggi's post and took info from their application to set aside the judgement. The hearing is on 2nd Oct.
    I need to know if anyone can point me to right direction, what to expect from the hearing etc.
    I have worked really hard to buildup my credit history, i used to have an excellent score but now it has gone to poor. I am really cross with them and want to ensure they end up paying for their ruthlessness.
    Any help/guidance would be appreciated.
Page 1
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 12th Sep 17, 1:59 PM
    • 3,844 Posts
    • 5,413 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 1:59 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 1:59 PM
    there should be something in the newbies thread. out of interest do you know who's car park it was?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 12th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
    The NEWBIES thread tells you about set asides and shows successes v CEL, in post #2 of it. All you need to know is there, with links.

    I read Saggi's post and took info from their application to set aside the judgement. The hearing is on 2nd Oct.
    Good! Since hers, we have seen other successes.

    Take proof that you had moved, but that you were 'there to be found' with a basic search (i.e. prove things like: you are on the public electoral roll - if you are). And take evidence that more than one person drove that car (if you can work out which car it is about).

    Also write to your MP like this person:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5702742
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 12-09-2017 at 2:09 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 18th Sep 17, 12:35 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Jeff123
    • #4
    • 18th Sep 17, 12:35 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Sep 17, 12:35 PM
    Hello
    Sorry been away for a few days.
    answers to your questions.
    I do not know which parking area it was. I was hoping that CEL would have sent me
    copies of PCNs before we go to court so I can see what I am defending for. I am sure they have received the letters/ pack that I sent to the court on triplicate.
    Are they supposed to send me anything prior to attending the court?
    Just wanted to explore the following scenarios? Any advise will be hugely appreciated.
    Scenario A:
    If they don't turn up in court, can the case be dropped? And if so can I claim any costs on the like loss of wages, person in litigant, compensation for stress etc, data protection breach etc?
    Please excuse me if I sound bit ignorant, I have never had to deal with this sort of scenario at all and have never been to court so all this is very overwhelming, just trying to get my head around it all.
    Scenario B
    If they turn up to defend, am presuming they will have to handover the copies of the PCNs etc, do I get a chance to go through them before we get in front of the judge?

    What sort of documents do I need to take with me?

    If the judge is on their side, what shall I do? Can I appeal etc?

    I am only the main principal to drive my car but on few occasions I have had a couple of my friends/cousins who have driven my car with my consent but of course on their own insurances.

    Please help. Really bricking it!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Sep 17, 2:35 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 17, 2:35 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 17, 2:35 PM
    Are they supposed to send me anything prior to attending the court?
    No, not for a set aside, most people here do these in the dark but still win. CEL will probably not turn up and you should read Saggi's thread linked in the NEWBIES thread post #2.

    please none iof the usual 'I can't defend it if I don't know what it is about - yes, you can, everyone does and they get them overturned and the CCJ wiped, and can claim your £255 court fee back, if you do it right. There are LOADS of set aside threads here, you need to search & read more of them.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 1st Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Jeff123
    • #6
    • 1st Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    Hi guys,
    Tomorrow is the day. I hope I get a fair judge.
    I am taking my defence (similar to Saggi's outline) my circumstances are very similar to hers.
    Also taking the POFA 2012 schedule with me.
    Just wanted to confirm my smoking gun is the POFA 2012 NTK ?
    Any last pearls of wisdom?
    Will let you know how it goes.
    Many thanks.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 12:09 AM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 2nd Oct 17, 12:09 AM
    • #7
    • 2nd Oct 17, 12:09 AM
    Yes your smoking gun is indeed Schedule 4 of the POFA. Also take proof that there was more than one possible driver for that car (copy insurance?) and proof that you were 'there to be found' and had moved house, therefore you can't have seen the claim/defended it, but would have done (and would have had high prospects of winning) had CEL made even the most basic of searches or tracing attempt to find you.

    And take a printout of this:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-protect-consumers-from-debt-claims

    To show even a clueless Judge that parking firms were singled out re this abuse of process.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 2nd Oct 17, 6:03 AM
    • 1,705 Posts
    • 3,103 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 17, 6:03 AM
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 17, 6:03 AM
    Don't forget to ask the judge to order that CEL repay your £255. Lots of people forget so fail to get a fee refund. Suggest that as almost all CEL cases this year have been set-asides that this company go out of their way to use the courts to take advantage of people that move home.

    Good luck
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 2nd Oct 17, 10:18 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Jeff123
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:18 AM
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:18 AM
    Thank you for your support.
    Where Can I find a printable evidence of number of successful CEL set aside to show the judge?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 2nd Oct 17, 10:34 AM
    • 7,382 Posts
    • 6,425 Thanks
    The Deep
    £350 is a ridiculous amount for an alleged infringement of T&C in a car park. There has obviously been dishonesty here, (fraud?), on the part of the PPC and/or their solicitor and perhaps lack of due diligence.

    Personally, I am surprised that courts allow these default judgements on the nod. Surely all that is needed is a box for the claimant to tick that they have made recent efforts to trace the appellant.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 11:27 AM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thank you for your support.
    Where Can I find a printable evidence of number of successful CEL set aside to show the judge?
    Originally posted by Jeff123
    The BMPA has a list of court cases every day and CEL set asides feature far more than actual hearings, demonstrating evidence of an apparent blanket abuse of the court process, by (apparently) getting CCJs against people without their knowledge.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 2nd Oct 17, 1:23 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Jeff123
    A quick feedback
    The judge agreed to set the judgement aside. It only took 5 minutes and the claimants didn't turn up.
    I tried to persuade him to award me the refund of £255 for set aside and if he can dismiss the case
    but he refused. He said he will award costs at the defence hearing.
    Basically I have to write to CEL to let me and the court know what was the charge about and details of the contravention. They have up to 14th October to reply, then I can file my defence. I have got till 30th of October to that.
    So does it mean that I will have another hearing? And I can add my costs at that hearing.
    What if they don't respond to us?
    Sorry for my ignorance, I don't know how these processes work.
    What do I write to them? Any input will be highly appreciated.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 2:55 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would write to CEL (keep proof of posting, free from the PO Counter, NOT Recorded!) and say the judgment is set aside so they must now start again, and you put CEL on notice that the pre-action protocol for debt claims has changed on 1st October and you expect (list what you want to receive, tallying it to match the new protocol!)

    Have a look at the threads by Daniel san and fineanddan, both on page one right now; those are not set aside cases but they both set out draft letters asking for certain information under the new protocol, written robustly to make it difficult for the Claimant, whilst reasonably asking for information.

    Do the same as fineanddan did, adapt the wording from Daniel san's recent letter you see there and add at the end that you will be seeking your costs back should they now not proceed, since this entire episode has been vexatious and unreasonable with a wholly misconceived claim against a registered keeper when CEL know full well they don't use the POFA.

    I would also enclose a costs schedule - to date - including the £255 and your loss of leave/travel and parking (!) for today, and tell them you will be claiming at least this amount at any hearing. There is an example costs schedule in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, a very simple but powerful document to send them when it will likely add up to over £300 already.

    Show us first! We will help perfect your wording, if needed.

    I don't expect a hearing, I expect CEL to flounder, then you can claim your wasted costs after all.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 02-10-2017 at 2:58 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 2nd Oct 17, 3:21 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Ok thanks. I will read these posts. How do I get to this page?
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 2nd Oct 17, 3:25 PM
    • 3,495 Posts
    • 3,553 Thanks
    DoaM
    How did you get to THIS page? Did you click on a link in a list of topics on a page?

    Guess then how you find those other topics.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 4:54 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ok thanks. I will read these posts. How do I get to this page?
    Originally posted by Jeff123
    See my signature (BELOW) which explains where to click to get back to page one, one click back.

    If you can't find your own thread later, click on your own username and all is revealed.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 3rd Oct 17, 9:46 AM
    • 7,382 Posts
    • 6,425 Thanks
    The Deep
    If CEL, who usually lose in court against forum aided claims, do not wish to make a claim under the new CPR regulations , I assume that OP can claim unreasonable behaviour costs.


    Why did the judge not award the set aside costs immediately I wonder? The amount was outrageous and the claim was made to an old address,
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Finglish2002
    • By Finglish2002 3rd Oct 17, 11:26 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Finglish2002
    Hi Jeff. My wife has just landed in exactly the same mess. Can you share the form you filled in with me as it would massively help us. Also anything else you took to court. I want to try and get the form off tomorrow. Thanks. Simon
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 1:56 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Have you followed the advice this poster got and read saggi's thread about how she completed her N244 & statement? That's all that was done here.

    Set asides are covered in 'newbies please read these faqs first' at the top of the forum board.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 5th Oct 17, 3:57 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Hi everyone.
    I have received the judgement order from court today.
    This is what it states:

    It is ordered that
    1) Judgement set aside forthwith
    2) By 4pm on 16th Oct 2017 claimant must file and serve amended Particulars of Claim setting out the facts supporting the claim.
    3) By 4pm 30th Oct 2017 Defendant must send to the Claimant and to the court any defence.
    4) The costs of the application today are reserved.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,952Posts Today

7,833Users online

Martin's Twitter