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  • FIRST POST
    • rmg1
    • By rmg1 6th Sep 17, 1:03 PM
    • 2,883Posts
    • 736Thanks
    rmg1
    Cigarette ends and "fines"
    • #1
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:03 PM
    Cigarette ends and "fines" 6th Sep 17 at 1:03 PM
    Hi all

    I know this isn't a motoring issue but I'm hoping it will follow the same lines.

    I've just been handed an £80 "fine" from a 3rd-party company working on behalf of my local council because I dropped my cigarette end on the floor (apparently it's caught on camera, although I haven't seen the footage).

    There are no bins/ashtrays in the vicinity for approx 1/4 mile in either direction.

    The advice I was given when I queried the fine was to "put it in my pocket" (meaning the cigarette end).

    According to the on-the-spot paperwork I was given there is no automatic right of appeal (although, after speaking to the 3rd-party company, I can take it to Magistrates court).

    Anyone any ideas on my next steps?
    Flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality - Am I flogging a dead horse?

    Any posts are my opinion and only that. Please read at your own risk.
Page 1
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 6th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    • 2,580 Posts
    • 3,839 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    You no doubt carried the offending item with you before you consumed and disposed of it for the taxpayer to clean up after you why couldn't you make arrangements to dispose of it later?

    If you think you have been given the FPN unfairly just ignore it (like you did with the environment) and let a magistrate decide, that is your only appeal route.
    Though the fine is more likely to go up!
    Last edited by fisherjim; 06-09-2017 at 1:18 PM.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 6th Sep 17, 1:33 PM
    • 3,491 Posts
    • 3,551 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:33 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:33 PM
    Anyone any ideas on my next steps?
    Originally posted by rmg1
    Quit smoking / change to vaping?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • rmg1
    • By rmg1 6th Sep 17, 2:21 PM
    • 2,883 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    rmg1
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:21 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:21 PM
    @fisherjim - the leftovers from a cigarette is all bio-degradable (paper, cotton, tobacco). Without wishing to start an argument, how many sweet wrappers have you/your children thrown on the floor/out of the car window?

    @DoaM - thanks for that(!)
    Flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality - Am I flogging a dead horse?

    Any posts are my opinion and only that. Please read at your own risk.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Sep 17, 2:31 PM
    • 6,340 Posts
    • 8,147 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:31 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:31 PM
    @fisherjim - the leftovers from a cigarette is all bio-degradable (paper, cotton, tobacco). Without wishing to start an argument, how many sweet wrappers have you/your children thrown on the floor/out of the car window?
    Originally posted by rmg1
    It's the way of life today, be glad you don't live in Singapore
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 6th Sep 17, 2:35 PM
    • 4,547 Posts
    • 5,977 Thanks
    spadoosh
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:35 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:35 PM
    @fisherjim - the leftovers from a cigarette is all bio-degradable (paper, cotton, tobacco). Without wishing to start an argument, how many sweet wrappers have you/your children thrown on the floor/out of the car window?

    @DoaM - thanks for that(!)
    Originally posted by rmg1
    Ermhh theyre not. Most filters are made from cellulose acetate which is plastic. It does break down in the same sense a plastic bottle breaks down but its stretching it to call it biodegradable, you just end up with tiny particles of it.

    Tobacco contains quite a few carcinogens. They leach tokins in to the environment which are then consumed by wildlife (plants, birds and animals).

    Are you wanting to appeal the fine? If so on what basis do you wish to appeal? If theres cctv evidence of you doing it i cant imagine there will be many mitigating circumstances that would allow a succesful appeal.

    Maybe. chalk it up to experience and avoid doing it again in future? And be happy that youre helping contribute to the wages of the people who have to clean up after those who dont get fined.


    In case youre not aware you can buy pocket ashtrays for much cheaper than a fine. I think theyre about £5. Little heat proof pouch that you put your fag in squeeze and it puts it out. Dont burn your finger and it helps contain some of the just docked fag smell.

    Here you go a pack of 9 for £5.99, bargain!

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-STUBBI-POCKET-ASHTRAYS-PORTABLE-POUCHES-For-Cigarettes-/282618360816?epid=761001084&hash=item41cd5df3f0:g: BPQAAOSwls5Y8cjU
    Last edited by spadoosh; 06-09-2017 at 2:39 PM.
    Don't be angry!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Sep 17, 2:39 PM
    • 7,379 Posts
    • 6,422 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #7
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:39 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:39 PM
    I know this isn't a motoring issue but I'm hoping it will follow the same lines.


    It does not, this forum has nothing to do with littering.
    Last edited by The Deep; 06-09-2017 at 2:41 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 6th Sep 17, 2:44 PM
    • 2,580 Posts
    • 3,839 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #8
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:44 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:44 PM
    @fisherjim - the leftovers from a cigarette is all bio-degradable (paper, cotton, tobacco). Without wishing to start an argument, how many sweet wrappers have you/your children thrown on the floor/out of the car window?

    @DoaM - thanks for that(!)
    Originally posted by rmg1
    I don't litter, your argument is pathetic, and throwing your disgusting filth about makes this country a mess.

    I have told you what you can try if you think you can dodge your responsibilities, and this is as TD said a parking forum!

    Grow up!
    • Snakes Belly
    • By Snakes Belly 6th Sep 17, 3:10 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    Snakes Belly
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:10 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:10 PM
    "It's the way of life today, be glad you don't live in Singapore"

    Or Stoke on Trent.
    Last edited by Snakes Belly; 06-09-2017 at 3:13 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 12:23 AM
    • 51,504 Posts
    • 65,102 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Same scum private firms who chase people for ''cycling when you shouldn't'' - kerchiiingg!!

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73056339#post73056339

    I hate these firms almost as much as I loathe parking companies.

    Here's what 'litter-police' companies do to people, lovely, they must be soooo proud:

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/06/litter-police-bully-pensioner-with-learning-difficulties-over-cigarette-butt-6907458/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39882434

    What a shining example of British enterprise for a start-up business (NOT):

    https://www.localgov.co.uk/Council-litter-enforcement-company-issues-fewer-tickets-than-predecessor/43143

    Council litter enforcement company issues fewer tickets than predecessor

    ''A council-owned litter enforcement company in East Hampshire has issued half as many fines than their predecessor because of their ‘honest’ approach to dealing with the public.

    EH Commercial Services (EHCS) — a company wholly owned by East Hampshire DC — only issued 719 tickets last year compared to the previous year when their predecessor, the private company Kingdom Services, handed out 1,454.

    Chris Bradley, a director at EHCS, explained the difference in the number of tickets was the result of EHCS being a start-up company which is still ‘learning’.
    ''


    Errrrm...''still learning'' does not equate to ''an honest approach to the public''.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 07-09-2017 at 12:25 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 7th Sep 17, 8:30 AM
    • 2,580 Posts
    • 3,839 Thanks
    fisherjim
    Same scum private firms who chase people for ''cycling when you shouldn't'' - kerchiiingg!!

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73056339#post73056339

    I hate these firms almost as much as I loathe parking companies.

    Here's what 'litter-police' companies do to people, lovely, they must be soooo proud:

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/06/litter-police-bully-pensioner-with-learning-difficulties-over-cigarette-butt-6907458/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39882434

    What a shining example of British enterprise for a start-up business (NOT):

    https://www.localgov.co.uk/Council-litter-enforcement-company-issues-fewer-tickets-than-predecessor/43143

    Council litter enforcement company issues fewer tickets than predecessor

    ''A council-owned litter enforcement company in East Hampshire has issued half as many fines than their predecessor because of their ‘honest’ approach to dealing with the public.

    EH Commercial Services (EHCS) — a company wholly owned by East Hampshire DC — only issued 719 tickets last year compared to the previous year when their predecessor, the private company Kingdom Services, handed out 1,454.

    Chris Bradley, a director at EHCS, explained the difference in the number of tickets was the result of EHCS being a start-up company which is still ‘learning’.
    ''


    Errrrm...''still learning'' does not equate to ''an honest approach to the public''.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Totally agree and it's just like parking, if a section of the public didn't take liberties maybe the Councils like private landholders wouldn't be persuaded they need to hire scum to fight back.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 7th Sep 17, 8:51 AM
    • 26,086 Posts
    • 33,072 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    I suggest the OP goes to pepipoo.com, they do have some legal people on there and is more likely to get an accurate answer.
    Just my 1p's worth, they gave out a ticket, did you give your name and address? If not how can they chase you unless it was out of the car's window.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • rmg1
    • By rmg1 7th Sep 17, 9:25 AM
    • 2,883 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    rmg1
    I wasn't going to comment any further on here due to certain members offering (seemingly) abusive comments. I have, however, just checked the FPN I was given and found an error.
    The address of the alleged offence is on a street I was nowhere near.

    As coupon-mad referred to, it was Kingdom I needed to speak to to try and sort this out.

    @spadoosh - I have now invested in a pocket ashtray (waiting for it to be delivered) and, in the meantime, I have made alternative arrangements.
    Last edited by rmg1; 07-09-2017 at 9:40 AM.
    Flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality - Am I flogging a dead horse?

    Any posts are my opinion and only that. Please read at your own risk.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 7th Sep 17, 10:16 AM
    • 3,834 Posts
    • 5,410 Thanks
    Half_way
    do you have a smart phone?
    you could see if your location had been recorded on apple maps, or google maps timeline history.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 7th Sep 17, 10:23 AM
    • 6,340 Posts
    • 8,147 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Ever get the feeling you are not alone

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4857532/Litter-wardens-row-elderly-man-cigarette-butt.html
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 7th Sep 17, 10:33 AM
    • 2,580 Posts
    • 3,839 Thanks
    fisherjim
    I wasn't going to comment any further on here due to certain members offering (seemingly) abusive comments. I have, however, just checked the FPN I was given and found an error.
    The address of the alleged offence is on a street I was nowhere near.

    As coupon-mad referred to, it was Kingdom I needed to speak to to try and sort this out.

    @spadoosh - I have now invested in a pocket ashtray (waiting for it to be delivered) and, in the meantime, I have made alternative arrangements.
    Originally posted by rmg1
    Fair enough but I don't see my comments as abusive, the way councils have taken on these scum firms is disgusting I agree and they are incentivised that is wrong.

    I am sorry you think I am attacking you but in no way have you shown that you think what you did is socially unacceptable, far from it.

    I have a giant bee in my bonnet against litter louts, the country is becoming a toilet and this is the tip of the iceberg.

    Just the way I see it sorry if it offends, I'm Gone!
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 7th Sep 17, 11:05 AM
    • 3,491 Posts
    • 3,551 Thanks
    DoaM
    If OP is referring to my post #3 then to call it abusive is laughable.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • molerat
    • By molerat 7th Sep 17, 11:05 AM
    • 17,326 Posts
    • 11,517 Thanks
    molerat
    Currently on BBC1 Dom On The Spot. Apparently they reckon 200M thrown away a day in the UK, quite a big pile ! And as for bio-degradeable, 12 years to decompose.
    Last edited by molerat; 07-09-2017 at 11:09 AM.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 7th Sep 17, 11:13 AM
    • 2,580 Posts
    • 3,839 Thanks
    fisherjim
    If OP is referring to my post #3 then to call it abusive is laughable.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    No I think its me DoaM
    • rmg1
    • By rmg1 7th Sep 17, 12:11 PM
    • 2,883 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    rmg1
    It is socially unacceptable and I'm not referring to post #3 with my comment in post #13.
    I think I'll call it quits on here.
    Flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality - Am I flogging a dead horse?

    Any posts are my opinion and only that. Please read at your own risk.
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