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  • FIRST POST
    • scotland_lass
    • By scotland_lass 23rd Aug 17, 8:21 AM
    • 44Posts
    • 3Thanks
    scotland_lass
    Housing Benefit
    • #1
    • 23rd Aug 17, 8:21 AM
    Housing Benefit 23rd Aug 17 at 8:21 AM
    I've tried searching the forums but couldn't find an answer to my specific question.

    I know the rules for housing benefit have changed if you have more than 2 children (born after Arpril 2017) but does this new rule apply to older children?

    My local council tell me they only take into consideration 2 children on the 'amount the government says you need to live' no matter what their ages are. I tried asking if this was a mistake as all I can find online says if you get CTC for the children and have an award notice which includes these children then they should be included in the calculations. The lady I spoke to at the council insisted this was wrong.

    It seems to me that they are wrong but what can I do if they tell me otherwise?

    Maybe some councils have different rules? Or should they all be the same?

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 23rd Aug 17, 8:33 AM
    • 1,358 Posts
    • 1,200 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #2
    • 23rd Aug 17, 8:33 AM
    • #2
    • 23rd Aug 17, 8:33 AM
    I believe your answer is in this link... https://www.gght.org.uk/our-services/welfare-reforms/Pages/Two-Child-Limit-for-Child-Tax-Credit,-Housing-Benefit-and-Universal-Credit-.aspx
    • scotland_lass
    • By scotland_lass 23rd Aug 17, 9:04 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    scotland_lass
    • #3
    • 23rd Aug 17, 9:04 AM
    • #3
    • 23rd Aug 17, 9:04 AM
    Thanks.

    It seems they should be included if there is a tax credit award with them on. Wondering why the council are saying no even though I have provided a tax credit award letter?
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 23rd Aug 17, 9:07 AM
    • 1,358 Posts
    • 1,200 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #4
    • 23rd Aug 17, 9:07 AM
    • #4
    • 23rd Aug 17, 9:07 AM
    Have you showed them your tax credits award letter?
    • scotland_lass
    • By scotland_lass 23rd Aug 17, 9:25 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    scotland_lass
    • #5
    • 23rd Aug 17, 9:25 AM
    • #5
    • 23rd Aug 17, 9:25 AM
    Have you showed them your tax credits award letter?
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    Yes, they required it before they worked out if we were entitled. I got the letter back saying we weren't entitled to any help and I went in to query that. The lady I spoke to on that day said if my other 2 kids were included we would be entitled to some help but if they were not allowed to be included we wouldn't be entitled to any help with the rent. She didn't seem to know what the rules were regarding 3+ children. They agreed to look at it again but phoned me a few days ago to clarify something and when I asked about the children she said it was 2 only. It was at that point that I said I thought it was only for children born recently and she said no, I was wrong. If that is the case then they are wasting their time bothering to calculate it because we will be told no anyway.

    I'm just not sure where to go from here, if they are wrong because they don't seem to be interested in looking into the 3+ child situation. If they are wrong, and calculating people's housing benefit entitlement wrong, how many people are not getting help that could be?! Surely they should be aware of the rules.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 23rd Aug 17, 9:45 AM
    • 22,881 Posts
    • 13,243 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #6
    • 23rd Aug 17, 9:45 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Aug 17, 9:45 AM
    Make an appointment with CAB and get some help.
    • Housing Benefit Officer
    • By Housing Benefit Officer 23rd Aug 17, 10:10 PM
    • 2,356 Posts
    • 4,199 Thanks
    Housing Benefit Officer
    • #7
    • 23rd Aug 17, 10:10 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Aug 17, 10:10 PM
    Quote the following:-

    Housing Benefit Circular HB A5/2017

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606547/a5-2017.pdf

    Print a copy and send it in with your letter of reconsideration. They have used the default rule. Highlight paragraph 11.

    11.The position therefore, from 6 April 2017 is that the default limit of 2 children /
    qualifying young persons should apply unless the claimant provides a copy of
    their award notice which states that CTC has allowed more than 2 children /
    qualifying young persons in its assessment (NB: sufficient information for these
    purposes is not currently available via the Customer Information System (CIS) or
    the Automated Transfer to Local Authority Systems (ATLAS)). Where the award
    notice confirms that more than 2 children/qualifying young persons have been
    included in the CTC assessment, only then can personal allowances be included
    in the HB assessment for those children/young persons.
    These are my own views and you should seek advice from your local Benefits Department or CAB.
    • Cyber007
    • By Cyber007 2nd Sep 17, 11:04 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Cyber007
    • #8
    • 2nd Sep 17, 11:04 AM
    • #8
    • 2nd Sep 17, 11:04 AM
    If it's any consolation, I'm in the same position. I used several calculators and they all said we were entitled to full HB... but we're awarded not even a fifth of it....what was really odd was that all the children (including one on DLA) were included in the council tax support need calculation they send. How can include them for that but not HB? Not only that but the child on DLA is 15, but they've included a premium for him but added 2 children under 11, not included him...also research has found we shouldn't be included in the benefits cap/needs assessment anyway as we have a dependent and DLA....it's like one rule for one thing and something else for the other.....
    So we have emailed them (25th aug) to tell them that the children should be included as per government rules, and included links to the government website where the rules are......guess only time will tell as to what reason they come up with not to abide by the rules set out by the government....mind you on my travels (research) I've found councils have been told to reduce their spending on HB...at least I'm not alone wondering what they are playing at!
    • Housing Benefit Officer
    • By Housing Benefit Officer 2nd Sep 17, 12:09 PM
    • 2,356 Posts
    • 4,199 Thanks
    Housing Benefit Officer
    • #9
    • 2nd Sep 17, 12:09 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Sep 17, 12:09 PM
    They are using the default rule for Housing Benefit.

    Council Tax Support rules are different.

    They should recalculate once you have provided proof they are included in your Tax credit calculation.
    These are my own views and you should seek advice from your local Benefits Department or CAB.
    • Cyber007
    • By Cyber007 16th Sep 17, 9:51 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Cyber007
    They should recalculate once you have provided proof they are included in your Tax credit calculation.
    They did ask for the latest CTC award which I hadn't had long received due to their back log, and they also requested DLA proof again for my son, but all I had was the results of MR which tells; in a small paragraph on the back of the last page,.... That's he's got low mobility and high carers component and the dates from and until it ends, in 2 years... I sent that back again highlighting that paragraph as I'd assume it's easy to miss.

    Now on the online system it says zero on everything, including council tax relief but the bit we have been paid so far inbetween re calculations due to including CA which was stopped during MR so we don't get that at the moment. (Have applied but there's months of backlog)

    So are we all of a sudden not eligible now, or were they in the middle of re doing it but it was a Friday so didn't finish it?

    It's a worry, no one wants the humiliation of asking for hand outs, or to be made to feel like a criminal...and 2 months it's still not sorted.
    • trucdev88
    • By trucdev88 16th Sep 17, 3:48 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    trucdev88
    You are very lucky when you are live in country always help you to take care of children. In my country, if parents are poor, children cannot go to school. Government just help a little bit rice or charity. it is not enough for fees in school and having full meal.
    • scotland_lass
    • By scotland_lass 20th Sep 17, 1:57 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    scotland_lass
    Quote the following:-

    Housing Benefit Circular HB A5/2017

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606547/a5-2017.pdf

    Print a copy and send it in with your letter of reconsideration. They have used the default rule. Highlight paragraph 11.

    11.The position therefore, from 6 April 2017 is that the default limit of 2 children /
    qualifying young persons should apply unless the claimant provides a copy of
    their award notice which states that CTC has allowed more than 2 children /
    qualifying young persons in its assessment (NB: sufficient information for these
    purposes is not currently available via the Customer Information System (CIS) or
    the Automated Transfer to Local Authority Systems (ATLAS)). Where the award
    notice confirms that more than 2 children/qualifying young persons have been
    included in the CTC assessment, only then can personal allowances be included
    in the HB assessment for those children/young persons.
    Originally posted by Housing Benefit Officer
    It's still not sorted. I printed this info out and took it to the benefits section at the council. The woman i spoke to said this was an old circular and she thinks a newer one has been sent out since which says only 2 children for new HB claims no matter when they were born and regardless of if they are on the TC award letter.

    They sent me a letter which says

    Your claim was assessed from 7 August 2017 following an application form being submitted. Changes came in from April 2017 for housing benefit restricting benefit for more than 2 children. This brings housing benefit regulations in line with Tax Credit regulations whereby it cannot be paid for more than 2 children for new claims from 6 April 2017.

    If you can provide your TC award notice and it shows more than two children have been included in their decision I can look at your claim again. (Why don't they say if more than 2 children are on the TC award notice then the council will have to take them into consideration?? I am not holding my breath that they can sort this for me)

    To make it worse our TC have been reduced due to an overpayment and so we are worse off each week and still not entitled to help with rent (even though entitledto calculator now says we should be help with almost all of our rent and only be eligible to pay around £20 per week).

    Where do i go from here? I have already provided the council with the TC award notice (before they messed up my claim). Do i go back with it again? I even got the woman i spoke to to photo copy the letter which shows the children on it.
    • Housing Benefit Officer
    • By Housing Benefit Officer 20th Sep 17, 6:37 PM
    • 2,356 Posts
    • 4,199 Thanks
    Housing Benefit Officer
    It's still not sorted. I printed this info out and took it to the benefits section at the council. The woman i spoke to said this was an old circular and she thinks a newer one has been sent out since which says only 2 children for new HB claims no matter when they were born and regardless of if they are on the TC award letter.

    They sent me a letter which says

    Your claim was assessed from 7 August 2017 following an application form being submitted. Changes came in from April 2017 for housing benefit restricting benefit for more than 2 children. This brings housing benefit regulations in line with Tax Credit regulations whereby it cannot be paid for more than 2 children for new claims from 6 April 2017.

    If you can provide your TC award notice and it shows more than two children have been included in their decision I can look at your claim again. (Why don't they say if more than 2 children are on the TC award notice then the council will have to take them into consideration?? I am not holding my breath that they can sort this for me)

    To make it worse our TC have been reduced due to an overpayment and so we are worse off each week and still not entitled to help with rent (even though entitledto calculator now says we should be help with almost all of our rent and only be eligible to pay around £20 per week).

    Where do i go from here? I have already provided the council with the TC award notice (before they messed up my claim). Do i go back with it again? I even got the woman i spoke to to photo copy the letter which shows the children on it.
    Originally posted by scotland_lass
    She obviously has some 'training needs' if she doesn't even know the regulations. There is no newer circular. This is the legislation as laid out in the circular. Your children should all be included in your benefit claim.
    These are my own views and you should seek advice from your local Benefits Department or CAB.
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