Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search

Results: Do you always pay for 'insurance' when ordering a courier/Parcelforce?

Yes?

21.05% • 4 votes

No?

31.58% • 6 votes

Sometimes?

31.58% • 6 votes

Never?

15.79% • 3 votes

You may not vote on this poll

19 votes in total.

  • FIRST POST
    • Busy Packaging
    • By Busy Packaging 2nd Jul 17, 6:47 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Busy Packaging
    EBAY order, Myhermes & A Zero Feedback Buyer
    • #1
    • 2nd Jul 17, 6:47 PM
    EBAY order, Myhermes & A Zero Feedback Buyer 2nd Jul 17 at 6:47 PM
    Hi there,

    This is a little complicated, I shall not go into too much detail but here is what has happened:-

    A buyer on Ebay (ZERO Feedback) purchases £500.00 worth of item (glasses in this instance).

    I use MYHERMES - -PAY for SIGNATURE and INSURANCE to the value of £500.00.

    I drop the parcel to the drop shop.

    THREE days later the parcel tracking reads 'DELIVERED TO PORCH'.

    I awake to a case on EBAY - Item not received - PLUS Negative feedback stating 'nobody can tell me where the item is'.

    The buyer never contacted me directly - the open case and the negative were the first I knew of this problem. There was a note from the buyer within the CASE notes to say that she did not have a porch.

    I contacted Ebay a few days later after some back and fore between myself and MYHermes - who said that the courier had delivered the parcel (even though it said 'in the porch').

    EBAY immediately removed the negative feedback (remember, zero f/b new buyer) AND refunded me the £500.00.

    The SAME day the £500.00 had gone from my account and a note in Payal said that Ebay had refunded the buyer.

    I DID NOT NOTICE THIS for a couple of weeks, as I thought all had been resolved and was busy dealing with some larger orders - UNTIL I realised that actually my PAYPAL account was a bit light and looked further to see 'Ebay refunded buyer' against the order - after the "Ebay refunded seller"

    I received no contact to the effect that EBAY had reneged and refunded the buyer.

    I write to MYHermes again, re-opening the resolved (unresolved) issue regarding the parcel.

    It turns out, the insurance I paid is completely useless - read and weep:-
    Full list of excluded items

    Excluded Items are goods which Hermes will carry but, are sent at your own risk. Hermes will not compensate you for loss, damage or late delivery of Excluded Items.
    • All tickets including travel and events
    • Antiques (objects over 100 years old)
    • Any dangerous, hazardous or prohibited goods (as detailed in our Prohibited Goods section)
    • Any foods solid or liquid contained in glass or ceramics - (all liquids are prohibited)
    • Articles made largely or wholly of gold, silver or other precious metals
    • Bankers' drafts
    • Bearer securities including share warrants
    • Bonds or relative coupons un-franked postage or revenue stamps (except a revenue stamp embossed or impressed on an instrument which has been executed)
    • Cameras
    • Ceramic or composite items of any description including without limitation glass, mirrored items, crystal, ceramics, porcelain, plaster, marble, china, stone, slate, resin, granite, concrete (or any item containing these materials)
    • Cheques or dividend warrants which are uncrossed and made payable to the bearer
    • Chilled food
    • Coupons, Vouchers, Tokens, Stamps
    • Credit cards / debit cards
    • Currency notes or coins
    • Current bank notes
    • Diamonds and other precious stones with a value in excess of £250
    • Eggs
    • Flat packed furniture with sharp metal edges
    • Fossils, Stones, Stoneware
    • Frozen food
    • Furniture (Unless flat packed)
    • Human and animal remains including, without limitation, ashes
    • Items made of or containing glass
    • Items which can be exchanged by themselves or with any other item for money or goods or services
    • Items which have been strapped together
    • Jewellery with a value over £250 or antique items
    • Kitchen Appliances - White goods/coffee machines/microwaves
    • Lighting
    • Liquid food items or items contained in glass or ceramics - (all liquids are prohibited)
    • Lottery tickets, scratch cards or similar
    • Marble or any stone derivative
    • Musical instrument hard cases and suitcases when used as external packaging
    • Musical instruments
    • National insurance stamps
    • Negotiable documents i.e. Passport
    • Paintings/Canvas Prints
    • Perishable food
    • Perishable goods
    • Plants, seeds, flowers, and plant derivatives
    • Real fur
    • Resin items, amber and composites
    • Scripts or subscription certificates
    • SIM cards
    • Spectacles
    • Telescope
    • Tobacco and Tobacco products
    • TV's & Monitors
    • Uncrossed postal orders which do not state to whom they are to be paid
    • Watches over £250 or antique items

    I wonder what the point is of the insurance in the first place, and surely there MUST be something illegal in the statment "Hermes will not compensate you for loss, damage or late delivery of Excluded Items."

    I am also considering the dubious 'zero feeback buyer'. They are are quite clearly documented as a successful interior designer (sian parry jones) who is a woman of a certain age and I believe must have many ebay accounts - perhaps having 'claimed' the same issue again and again - who knows?.

    So, THE POLICE - Small Claims court, I am at a slight loss as to what to do and who to blame (other than myself and having not hand delivered the goods).

    Any positive advice, constructive and useful would most sincerely be welcome.


    The Master said, “If your conduct is determined solely by considerations of profit you will arouse great resentment.” ― Confucius
Page 1
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 2nd Jul 17, 7:00 PM
    • 3,087 Posts
    • 1,792 Thanks
    ballisticbrian
    • #2
    • 2nd Jul 17, 7:00 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Jul 17, 7:00 PM
    This "no porch" issue has come up on the eBay sub forum before. I think the first advice was check on google maps to see if they have a porch but I expect this is all too late for that now.

    Perhaps someone with legal experience can tell you about the fairness of their "excluded from compensation for loss" clauses. However, also on the eBay subforum they discuss these excluded items from various couriers at length and the bottom line maybe that if this is expensive reading glasses, choosing a better courier would have been the best course of action.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 2nd Jul 17, 7:06 PM
    • 2,703 Posts
    • 1,652 Thanks
    Ectophile
    • #3
    • 2nd Jul 17, 7:06 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Jul 17, 7:06 PM
    If you're operating as a business, then you have no consumer rights. You are assumed to have read and agreed to Hermes' terms of business. If you didn't agree to those terms, then you shouldn't have employed them.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • Busy Packaging
    • By Busy Packaging 2nd Jul 17, 10:47 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Busy Packaging
    • #4
    • 2nd Jul 17, 10:47 PM
    "Better Courier........."
    • #4
    • 2nd Jul 17, 10:47 PM
    This "no porch" issue has come up on the eBay sub forum before. I think the first advice was check on google maps to see if they have a porch but I expect this is all too late for that now.

    Perhaps someone with legal experience can tell you about the fairness of their "excluded from compensation for loss" clauses. However, also on the eBay subforum they discuss these excluded items from various couriers at length and the bottom line maybe that if this is expensive reading glasses, choosing a better courier would have been the best course of action.
    Originally posted by ballisticbrian
    I have had issues with other courier companies, PARCELFARCE being one of them. I sold a wooden carving for £500.00, insured it and Parcelfarce collected and delivered it to Cornwall, the BOX was in two pieces as well as the carving. Tried to claim on the insurance, they would not pay out as the carving was 'unique' and 'irreplaceable'!!! Wasted money again....... The packaging was double boxed, filler, double bubble (big bubble & small bubble) - that was dropped on it's side (probably the side of the van) and ripped into two I will never use Parcelfarce again.

    It's a little bit more complicated than a simple breakage. The box could have been dropped from a great height and those glasses would not have broken, I never in a million eons thought they might go 'missing' though. I use MyHermes every day nearly and never had a problem with a missing parcel. Even if I paid my own MONTHLY insurance to an insurance company I know will compensate when things go wrong - if anybody knows of such a scheme I would love to hear of the company.

    So, do I report the stolen goods to the local Police in the area in which it was stolen? Will they be bothered? I am very, very frustrated and out of pocket due to this incident.
    The Master said, “If your conduct is determined solely by considerations of profit you will arouse great resentment.” ― Confucius
    • Busy Packaging
    • By Busy Packaging 2nd Jul 17, 10:51 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Busy Packaging
    • #5
    • 2nd Jul 17, 10:51 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Jul 17, 10:51 PM
    If you're operating as a business, then you have no consumer rights. You are assumed to have read and agreed to Hermes' terms of business. If you didn't agree to those terms, then you shouldn't have employed them.
    Originally posted by Ectophile
    Actually, the account this was sold through was a personal acc. Could that make a difference? Ebay have been giving free listings to private accounts (£1.00 max selling fees). I happened to use that rather than my business Ebay account. The monies were paid into a private paypal acc.
    The Master said, “If your conduct is determined solely by considerations of profit you will arouse great resentment.” ― Confucius
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 2nd Jul 17, 11:20 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,549 Thanks
    wealdroam
    • #6
    • 2nd Jul 17, 11:20 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Jul 17, 11:20 PM
    So, do I report the stolen goods to the local Police in the area in which it was stolen? Will they be bothered? I am very, very frustrated and out of pocket due to this incident.
    Originally posted by Busy Packaging
    Report it to Action Fraud.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 2nd Jul 17, 11:41 PM
    • 11,285 Posts
    • 8,503 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #7
    • 2nd Jul 17, 11:41 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Jul 17, 11:41 PM
    Actually, the account this was sold through was a personal acc. Could that make a difference? Ebay have been giving free listings to private accounts (£1.00 max selling fees). I happened to use that rather than my business Ebay account. The monies were paid into a private paypal acc.
    Originally posted by Busy Packaging
    If you were acting in the course of a business then it doesn't really matter what account you sold it through. Although you'd possibly land yourself in hot water by making a such a claim.

    Misleading consumers can amount to a criminal offence (ie pretending you're a private individual when you sell something - like some 2nd hand car traders do) and there would also be the possibility of fraud if you claimed to parcelforce that you were a private seller when you are in fact a business.


    Whether you were actually acting in the course of a business or not would depend on the specifics. A private individual can sell off old clothes/items they no longer want, but can't buy & sell goods for a profit iyswim?



    As for the problem at hand, did you say you paid for a service which gets a signature on delivery? If so, I'd try arguing with parcelforce that they are negligently in breach of contract - different if the parcel had went missing or been damaged for circumstances outwith their control, but disclaimers are not designed as a loophole for negligence.
    Last edited by unholyangel; 02-07-2017 at 11:48 PM.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Busy Packaging
    • By Busy Packaging 3rd Jul 17, 7:42 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Busy Packaging
    • #8
    • 3rd Jul 17, 7:42 AM
    Signature Issue
    • #8
    • 3rd Jul 17, 7:42 AM
    As for the problem at hand, did you say you paid for a service which gets a signature on delivery? If so, I'd try arguing with parcelforce that they are negligently in breach of contract - different if the parcel had went missing or been damaged for circumstances outwith their control, but disclaimers are not designed as a loophole for negligence.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    The courier company is MyHermes - yes, I paid for a signature - yes I paid insurance against loss. No, a signature was not received. I have emails to say that they cannot locate the parcel, even though the tracking clearly terminated at 'left in porch' scenario.
    The Master said, “If your conduct is determined solely by considerations of profit you will arouse great resentment.” ― Confucius
    • Busy Packaging
    • By Busy Packaging 3rd Jul 17, 7:51 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Busy Packaging
    • #9
    • 3rd Jul 17, 7:51 AM
    Action Fraud
    • #9
    • 3rd Jul 17, 7:51 AM
    Report it to Action Fraud.
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    Thank you for this. A friend of mine also said about this. Is it not better to report to the Local Police in that area?

    My thoughts are that the tracking shows it was delivered to the 'local courier'. Remember, buyer had zero feedback and only just set up the account over a few days before purchase. Buyer is interior designer - I have sold many many products to interior designers, all of whom have squillions of feedback for buying. I smell a rat with the 'left in porch', no signature and immediate negative f/b from buyer without email to contact me. She soon contacted me via email when her money was returned to me that day. Then another email once she had received her money back from Ebay that if the glasses show up she would still want them and that MyHermes said that they will return the package. Clearly MyHermes said no such thing. There was a slip inside the package with the return address, yes, but I have never heard of MyHermes actually delivering a parcel back to the sender.

    Therefore, I thought, because of the issues above, the parcel 'missing' in the local area - then the Local Police might be better than Action Fraud? Or, do Action Fraud inform the local police of the matter?

    Many thanks for your reply.
    The Master said, “If your conduct is determined solely by considerations of profit you will arouse great resentment.” ― Confucius
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 3rd Jul 17, 11:13 AM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,549 Thanks
    wealdroam
    Thank you for this. A friend of mine also said about this. Is it not better to report to the Local Police in that area?

    ...

    Therefore, I thought, because of the issues above, the parcel 'missing' in the local area - then the Local Police might be better than Action Fraud? Or, do Action Fraud inform the local police of the matter?
    Originally posted by Busy Packaging
    Action Fraud are 'the police' - The City of London Police.

    They will decide whether to forward the report onto a local police force and which force that should be.
    • nyermen
    • By nyermen 3rd Jul 17, 11:46 AM
    • 109 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    nyermen
    The courier company is MyHermes - yes, I paid for a signature - yes I paid insurance against loss. No, a signature was not received. I have emails to say that they cannot locate the parcel, even though the tracking clearly terminated at 'left in porch' scenario.
    Bit obvious I realise, but If you chose the signature option and they just dumped the package, then it sounds to me like they didn't provide the service. I'd be raising this point.
    Peter

    Debt free - finally finished paying off £20k + Interest.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 3rd Jul 17, 12:39 PM
    • 15,186 Posts
    • 20,645 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Hi there,

    This is a little complicated, I shall not go into too much detail but here is what has happened:-

    A buyer on Ebay (ZERO Feedback) purchases £500.00 worth of item (glasses in this instance).

    I use MYHERMES - -PAY for SIGNATURE and INSURANCE to the value of £500.00.

    Originally posted by Busy Packaging
    The list of excluded items is irrelevant and a red herring in this case.

    You are NOT claiming for a broken item, you are claiming for NEGLIGENCE on MYHERMES behalf.

    On their website, it clearly states:

    If you've paid for a signature service, we'll always ensure that a member of the household or a neighbour signs for the parcel. However, we can't always guarantee that the named recipient signs.
    http://support.myhermes.co.uk/app/answers/detail/a_id/461/~/guaranteed-recipient-signature

    A porch is not a neighbour or a household member, so they have failed to deliver the service you have paid for, so need to refund you the £500.

    This is going to be a battle however, so be prepared for court action, or the very least a "Letter Before Action".
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 3rd Jul 17, 4:54 PM
    • 10,926 Posts
    • 7,314 Thanks
    theonlywayisup


    EBAY immediately removed the negative feedback (remember, zero f/b new buyer) AND refunded me the £500.00.

    The SAME day the £500.00 had gone from my account and a note in Payal said that Ebay had refunded the buyer.


    [/I]
    Originally posted by Busy Packaging
    Why haven't you gone back to Ebay and asked them why they refunded the buyer when they said they were refunding you? This is the most obvious thing to do and I cannot see you have done it. Ebay DO make mistakes, their biggest is usually mixing the buyer and seller up.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 4th Jul 17, 3:28 PM
    • 3,586 Posts
    • 2,659 Thanks
    sheramber
    We took delivery of an item from myhermes and signed for it. I immediately went onto the tracking site to find'left in porch'. We donl' have a porch and actually answered the door.

    Ii seems 'left in porch' is standard tracking entry.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 4th Jul 17, 4:04 PM
    • 3,210 Posts
    • 3,249 Thanks
    DoaM
    It's probably the default setting and the drivers can't be arst to change it.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 4th Jul 17, 8:12 PM
    • 15,307 Posts
    • 11,120 Thanks
    hollydays
    your poll is very confusing because it uses the word ' always'
    The questions ' sometimes' and never are the same question
    Last edited by hollydays; 04-07-2017 at 8:16 PM.
    • CardinalWolsey
    • By CardinalWolsey 7th Jul 17, 1:15 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    CardinalWolsey
    A porch is not a neighbour or a household member, so they have failed to deliver the service you have paid for, so need to refund you the £500.
    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    I would imagine that the extent of Hermes liability in failing to get a signature would be the charge they have made for their service, so in effect they would refund you your delivery costs. The insurance would have covered the loss of the parcel, but in this case you sent something which is an excluded item, so cannot recoup the cost of the goods themselves.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 7th Jul 17, 1:26 PM
    • 11,285 Posts
    • 8,503 Thanks
    unholyangel
    I would imagine that the extent of Hermes liability in failing to get a signature would be the charge they have made for their service, so in effect they would refund you your delivery costs. The insurance would have covered the loss of the parcel, but in this case you sent something which is an excluded item, so cannot recoup the cost of the goods themselves.
    Originally posted by CardinalWolsey
    Why would you imagine that? Their liability is for the losses incurred due to their negligence.

    Having a contract with a party who has been negligent does not weaken your position and mean damages are limited to a refund - it just increases the standard of care that would be expected.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • timbstoke
    • By timbstoke 7th Jul 17, 3:40 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,199 Thanks
    timbstoke
    I can see a few options against Hermes here:

    * You're not claiming for loss, damage or late delivery, you're claiming for their negligence in failing to provide the service you paid for, and the consequential losses of that negligence.

    * If the insurance can't possibly be claimed against for your item, then it shouldn't have been sold to you. If they can figure out that it's not valid now, they could have figured it out before it was sold. Since it was sold, you're entitled to rely on the protection it provides. Again, your claim here is for the missold policy and the consequential losses of that misselling.

    Both approaches will involve a Letter Before Action to get anywhere, so I'd start with that.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 7th Jul 17, 4:50 PM
    • 32,405 Posts
    • 27,170 Thanks
    custardy
    The courier company is MyHermes - yes, I paid for a signature - yes I paid insurance against loss. No, a signature was not received. I have emails to say that they cannot locate the parcel, even though the tracking clearly terminated at 'left in porch' scenario.
    Originally posted by Busy Packaging
    My take is selecting 'delivered to porch' allows the courier to leave the item somewhere without signature.
    Got to be honest,I know its more expensive but for a small high value item. Royal Mail SD every time.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,212Posts Today

8,212Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @KCMurdarasi: @MartinSLewis Only 2 fluently, but I can struggle by in another 5 or so. And ask the way to the toilet in about 10 - you d?

  • Today's twitter poll: How many languages do you speak (inc Eng) with reasonable fluency (eg can have decent phone chat solely in that lang)

  • RT @iiSteveJonesii: @MartinSLewis After watching you talk this morning about me burning £300 I got on a comparison site tonight & sure enou?

  • Follow Martin