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  • FIRST POST
    • BobQ
    • By BobQ 18th Jun 17, 5:45 PM
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    BobQ
    When is a contract entered into
    • #1
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:45 PM
    When is a contract entered into 18th Jun 17 at 5:45 PM
    As I understand it, if you go into a shop and see something you want to buy on offer at a bargain price, and offer to but it, the shop can take your payment at which point there is a sale or can refuse your payment and so there is no sale.

    But what is the situation with an online payment using PayPal. Up to what point can a supplier refuse the sale, and at what point is it purchased? In the case of an online purchase the process is usually automatic so the supplier would find it difficult to refuse the sale until payment was accepted.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
Page 1
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 18th Jun 17, 5:50 PM
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    Fosterdog
    • #2
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:50 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:50 PM
    It will depend on what is specified in the terms on each individual retailer. Most choose to accept the contract at the point of dispatch as that allows and involves a person physically checking the stock against the order ready to send. Up until that point it is mostly automated so unlikely to accept at that point even if payment has already been made.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 18th Jun 17, 5:52 PM
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    unforeseen
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:52 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:52 PM
    Read the t&C's of the company. There are slight differences in when the contract is deemed to be made. By accepting the t&C's and going ahead with the order then you have accepted their definition.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 18th Jun 17, 5:52 PM
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    boliston
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:52 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:52 PM
    If you have received the goods probably a bit late to cancel the sale but they can cancel if goods not yet dispatched if it was caused by an error
    • bris
    • By bris 18th Jun 17, 6:28 PM
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    bris
    • #5
    • 18th Jun 17, 6:28 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Jun 17, 6:28 PM
    Obvious mistakes are never legally binding as one of the key points to offer and acceptance is consideration.


    As you already know online sales are very much automated now but a computer can not enter into a contract. So when the human get's a chance to see what has happened they tend to refuse the order for various reasons.


    You have to ask yourself would anyone ever consider selling a Ferrari for the price of a Skoda?


    Not sure what your actual issue is but unless details are given there is no way to really give you an answer.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 18th Jun 17, 6:37 PM
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    angryparcel
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 17, 6:37 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 17, 6:37 PM
    It also depends on the business.

    I run a services business and the whole process is automated, from the order being placed through the anti fraud checks to an account placed on a server giving a live website.
    at the checkout stage a user must tick a box saying they have read and understood our TOS, if they dont tick then they cannot proceed.
    but i class the contract starts as soon as an account is set up on a server as that is when they start using resources
    Last edited by angryparcel; 19-06-2017 at 8:37 AM.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 18th Jun 17, 10:32 PM
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    unholyangel
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 17, 10:32 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 17, 10:32 PM
    A contract is entered into when all the necessary elements are present.

    The simplified version is offer + acceptance = contract (theres more to it than that, such as consideration, certainty, capacity to contract etc but thats it in a nutshell). And then of course you have conditional contracts.

    If all the necessary elements aren't present then there can't be a contract (even if T&C's say the contrary).
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 19th Jun 17, 7:04 AM
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    unforeseen
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 7:04 AM
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 7:04 AM
    But contract law allows that process to be modified if both sides agree which is where t&C's and TOS come in. You normally have to tick a box to say you agree with them before you can click the buy button.

    Once you click you have agreed to the new definition of when the contract is formed
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 19th Jun 17, 1:32 PM
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    unholyangel
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:32 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:32 PM
    But contract law allows that process to be modified if both sides agree which is where t&C's and TOS come in. You normally have to tick a box to say you agree with them before you can click the buy button.

    Once you click you have agreed to the new definition of when the contract is formed
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    It allows parties to say that a contract is (for example) conditional upon a signed contract, but it doesn't actually allow the process/what the required elements are to be modified.

    Also, ticking a box to say you've read & understood is largely useless in a consumer contract due to unfair term legislation. Its purpose is to have consumers agree those conditions have been met regardless of whether they actually have - which goes against the purpose of the unfair terms themselves. You need to highlight important terms (especially which are onerous in nature) to the consumer, not just bury them in small print and have the consumer sign a disclaimer.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 19th Jun 17, 2:01 PM
    • 756 Posts
    • 425 Thanks
    angryparcel
    Also, ticking a box to say you've read & understood is largely useless in a consumer contract due to unfair term legislation.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Well my TOS and my process was approved by my Local Trading Standards to make sure it all complies with current legislation and they dont have any problem with a tick box to say they have read and understood the TOS as long as the TOS is available for them to read as you cannot force anyone to read TOS
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 19th Jun 17, 2:32 PM
    • 10,862 Posts
    • 8,118 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Well my TOS and my process was approved by my Local Trading Standards to make sure it all complies with current legislation and they dont have any problem with a tick box to say they have read and understood the TOS as long as the TOS is available for them to read as you cannot force anyone to read TOS
    Originally posted by angryparcel
    CMA's updated unfair term guidance

    ‘Have read and understood’ declarations
    5.34.5 Declarations that the consumer has read and/or understood the agreement
    give rise to special concerns. The legislation implements an EU Directive
    saying that terms must be plain and intelligible and that consumers must
    have a proper opportunity to read all of them (see part 2 of the guidance
    under the heading ‘the Transparency test’ at paragraphs 2.42 and
    following). Including a declaration of this kind in a contract effectively
    requires consumers to say that these conditions have been met, whether
    they have or not. This tends to defeat the purpose of the Directive, and as
    such is open to serious objection.

    5.34.6 In practice consumers often do not thoroughly read standard written
    contracts. There is no justification for requiring them to say they have done
    so whether they have or not.
    The purpose of ‘a read and understood’
    declarations is clearly to bind consumers to wording regardless of whether
    they have any real awareness of it. Such statements are thus open to the
    same objections as provisions binding consumers to terms they have not
    seen at all – see paragraph 10 of the Grey List (see paragraphs 5.20.1 to
    5.20.4).

    5.34.7 What such declarations do not do, which needs to be done, is effectively to
    draw attention to any important terms that could otherwise come as a
    surprise to the consumer. Unless such terms are properly flagged up, they
    are unlikely to be binding on the consumer.
    An appropriate warning that the
    consumer should read and understand terms before signing them can
    contribute to the transparency of the terms in question, in the interests of
    both parties. This is subject to the proviso that the terms are clear, allowing
    the consumer to understand the practical significance of what is said in
    them, and that reading them is likely to be practically feasible for a
    consumer in the circumstances.
    And just in case you're in any doubt, the accompanying annex A gives examples of actual terms that retailers were made to change or remove due to them being considered in breach of unfair terms:
    Annex A

    Original term
    I/We have read the Conditions of Sale overleaf and agree to be bound by
    them.

    Action taken
    New term: Before signing this order, the customer should carefully read the terms
    and conditions set out on the other side of this agreement.
    Last edited by unholyangel; 19-06-2017 at 2:35 PM.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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