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  • FIRST POST
    • ClassicCar
    • By ClassicCar 18th Jun 17, 12:22 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 3Thanks
    ClassicCar
    Ticketed when a permit was displayed
    • #1
    • 18th Jun 17, 12:22 PM
    Ticketed when a permit was displayed 18th Jun 17 at 12:22 PM
    Firstly, I'd like to say what a fantastic resource this forum is; I spent a good couple of hours last night reading about how to overturn private PCNs. There really is a lot of good information here. Having said that I find myself in a bit of a non-standard situation:

    For the past 15 years I've rented a garage from a local housing association. Around the garages there are a dozen or so marked parking bays. When I first rented the garage the parking bays were all numbered and each was allocated to one of the housing association's residential (i.e. non-garage) tenants. The housing association used to gently "police" the parking to help ensure that residents' parking wasn't abused by people doing a bit of shopping locally.

    Roughly 12 years ago the housing association engaged UKPC to "manage" their parking. I received a letter explaing the situation and saying that only permit-holders would be allowed to park in the marked bays. Since parking was limited, permits would only be issued to tenants of housing association houses. At the time that all seemed fair enough.

    However my garage is right at the end of a cul-de-sac. There is plenty of room to park a car outside my garage without blocking access to any of the parking bays or any other garage. I therefore contacted the housing association asking if I might have a permit specifically to park in front of my own garage door. Nice people that they are, they could see my point and duly sent me a permit on the understaning that I could not use any of the marked bays. In the section where the parking-bay-number would have been written they put my garage number. For the past dozen years I have been able to, and indeed sometimes have, parked my car outside my garage, usually for short periods while I nip indoors for something or drop something off.

    Fast-forward 12 years and UKPC are still "managing" the parking around the garages. There are still marked parking bays, though they are no longer numbered. My car was parked outside my garage with the bumper within a couple of inches of the door. The car certainly wasn't blocking access to any other garage or to any of the bays. My UKPC parking permit was clearly visible in the windscreen. Despite all that, a UKPC employee issued a PCN on the grounds that I was parked outside the marked bays.

    There are at least 3 standard UKPC signs around the garages though the sign on a lamp-post nearest my garage has been vandalised so many times that it has now been fixed above head-height so it's not easy for a varifocal-wearer to read!

    So to the big question: what's my best course of action to overturn this PCN? I'm thinking:

    1) Talk to the housing association. Unfortunately I don't think I have anything in writing from them regarding parking; just the parking permit itself. All I can hope is that they have kept a note on-file, but after 12 years that's a bit of a stretch...
    2) Wait for a few weeks (as advised on the newbies thread) and then use the PCN appeals process. My grounds for appeal would be that my designated parking bay is outside my garage, my garage is numbered (marked) and that this is noted on my parking permit. But I'm not sure that an organisation well-used to rejecting appeals would have much trouble rejecting that argument, especially if I can't provide any support in writing.
    3) Start down the route outlined in the standard letters in the newbies thread. Having said that the UKPC signage around the site is reasonably new (so I'd expect it to say all the "right" things) and, with the exception of the sign nearest my garage, seems quite legible.

    Or in this case is there a better/easier/more-certain course to take? I'd really appreciate any advice that anyone here can give me. I really don't like the idea of paying any money to the likes of UKPC, especially when my car was parked in an agreed and acceptable manner!

    I realise that's all rather a long story - many thanks for reading to the end!
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 18th Jun 17, 12:52 PM
    • 15,158 Posts
    • 19,101 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 18th Jun 17, 12:52 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Jun 17, 12:52 PM
    what a strange position to be in

    you have the landholders permission to park in front of your garage
    they issued a permit to that effect
    they havent provided you a marked bay in front of the garage
    they prohibited you from parking in any other marked bays
    this has been allowed for a decade or more

    clearly the UKPC weasel has just followed his "brief" and despite a permit being on show he issued a windscreen pcn , because he wont know any better and is following the rules laid down in his (or her) "job"

    as this is the first time this has happened you should contact the landholder as keeper and as garage owner, show any proof that you have of what you have said above, including a copy or picture or scan of the parking permit

    then you need to get WRITTEN PERMISSION to carry on doing as before (plus adding historical permission too) , plus asking them to mark out the bay for your use only , so that the permit exclusively relates to the parking bay in front of your garage and can be seen to to so

    you also get them to cancel the UKPC pcn , as KEEPER (not as driver) , so do not reveal who the driver was, assume that I as the driver parked it there for arguments sake (which it could have been because I can drive other vehicles on 3rd party insurance)

    you should also ask them to get the vehicle placed onto a "whitelist" of authorised vehicles so that this does not happen again

    if you dont , this will repeat itself in the future, because the PPC is a jobsworth employing monkeys on peanut wages

    clearly UKPC would be a laughing stock if they issued a court claim, but now is the time to get all your ducks in row

    as for the future, if its not cancelled by day 25 , use the blue text BPA appeal as keeper , to UKPC, "as is" - no alterations , apart from adding an extra line saying that you as KEEPER have the landholders permission to park a vehicle just in front of your garage and have had this permission for over a decade, long before UKPC were employed as a contractor

    as for signage , signage rarely meets the requirements or the BPA CoP and is a factor in many failures by PPC`s , so unless you are an expert on signage , ALWAYS , ALWAYS ALLEGE THAT THE SIGNAGE IS POOR , INADEQUATE AND FAILS THE BPA CoP

    its their task to prove all the lawful reasons behind their pcn

    you only need to call them all into question at popla (or in court) to force them to prove each and every one is valid, otherwise they lose (even on one point)

    post #8 in this thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5665717 gives those main reasons why people win at POPLA or in civil court
    Last edited by Redx; 18-06-2017 at 2:03 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • ClassicCar
    • By ClassicCar 18th Jun 17, 1:52 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ClassicCar
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 17, 1:52 PM
    Very many thanks Redx!
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 17, 1:52 PM
    Very many thanks for your advice Redx; I'll do as you suggest and let you know how I get on.
    • ClassicCar
    • By ClassicCar 22nd Jul 17, 1:41 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ClassicCar
    • #4
    • 22nd Jul 17, 1:41 PM
    An update
    • #4
    • 22nd Jul 17, 1:41 PM
    Well I contacted the landowner and explained the situation. At first they weren't at all sure that they had ever given me permission to park in front of my own garage, but fortunately I managed to dig-out the original letter. They then agreed that it was perfectly OK for the car to be parked where it was. I asked them to cancel the PCN, whitelist my car and send me another letter confirming that it was still OK for my car to be parked outside the garage.

    Then I heard no more... I checked on the UKPC website and found that the PCN number was not recognised. It seemed that the PCN had indeed been cancelled. But then yesterday I received a letter from UKPC stating that the PCN had been reissued!

    So I started all over again. I've phoned the landowner and they couldn't understand why UKPC would reissue a PCN. They are going to look into it and make sure that the PCN is cancelled again, hopefully permanently this time! I also reminded them about whitelisting my vehicle and renewing my permission to park there. Apparently the person I speak to had asked the office to deal with this but clearly it's been forgotten.

    So a month later I've not got very far - watch this space!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 22nd Jul 17, 3:21 PM
    • 15,158 Posts
    • 19,101 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 22nd Jul 17, 3:21 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Jul 17, 3:21 PM
    frankly, you have got a lot further than I expected , due to you finding the old letter of permission

    stick with it and get the latest pcn cancelled , get on the whitelist , plus get a NEW letter of permission to supercede the old letter, and keep all the paperwork safe

    it may take a while , but I sense that you can get this sorted out and once forewarned you will be forearmed with new permission in writing , thereby stopping them in their tracks with any more pcn`s

    plus you will have historic evidence and new evidence if it ever goes to popla or to court , a landholders permission goes a long way to swaying these people

    best wishes , good luck, and I hope to see another post from you saying you have resolved this and got the new permission in writing too
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Jul 17, 3:35 PM
    • 48,883 Posts
    • 62,382 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 22nd Jul 17, 3:35 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Jul 17, 3:35 PM
    You need to follow your phone call with a letter to the HA, next week, insisting.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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