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  • FIRST POST
    • civil12345
    • By civil12345 17th Jun 17, 7:53 PM
    • 134Posts
    • 7Thanks
    civil12345
    Guaranteed over 50s plans
    • #1
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:53 PM
    Guaranteed over 50s plans 17th Jun 17 at 7:53 PM
    Hi, my mum has asked me to look into this for her. I think this would be much better than a standard life insurance policy as she has a few health issues and I know she wouldn't want anything that involves medicals or declaring problems.

    She's 59 and I'm looking at premiums of around £50 per month with a payout of around £13,000. I understand the sitaution with regard to payouts after 1 year, if as a result of accident etc.

    Firstly, any general comments on these products? Secondly, a few questions

    1) I think these products will be more expensive than she was expecting. Therefore I'm thinking of helping her with the cost. I assume this will be ok...my idea is to send her some money each month into the account the premium is taken from. I assume that is ok and won't be seen as strange?
    2) Can you have more than one of these policies from different providers if you want extra cover? Also thinking that as some only pay our after 2 years might be an idea to split as they end up with a higher premium.
    3) From what I've seen the fixed policies in general seem better than increasing? Agreed? I looked at an L&G one where the payout increasing by RPI but the premium increases by 1.5 times RPI which doesn't seem good.
    4) I assume when we get further through these quotes there will be an option to declare who receives the payment. Is this correct?

    Thanks for any comments
Page 1
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 18th Jun 17, 7:12 AM
    • 3,958 Posts
    • 2,465 Thanks
    csgohan4
    • #2
    • 18th Jun 17, 7:12 AM
    • #2
    • 18th Jun 17, 7:12 AM
    look at life assurance products they are much cheaper and value for money. However given the age, it still won't be cheap
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • civil12345
    • By civil12345 18th Jun 17, 3:28 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    civil12345
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 17, 3:28 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 17, 3:28 PM
    Thanks, any other thoughts on this?
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 18th Jun 17, 4:12 PM
    • 31,865 Posts
    • 37,579 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 17, 4:12 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 17, 4:12 PM
    does she actually NEED a life policy ??


    is there an outstanding mortgage or other debt ??


    otherwise what is the plan for the proceeds after death
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • civil12345
    • By civil12345 18th Jun 17, 4:48 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    civil12345
    • #5
    • 18th Jun 17, 4:48 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Jun 17, 4:48 PM
    No mortgage (rents from council) and no debt (I thought she had a bit of credit card debt but she told me yesterday she paid it off).

    She doesn't need a life policy. To be honest she's talking about wanting to cover funeral costs and leave me a little something, as we're really close and my situation is up-and-down.

    So far she's talked about starting to save something in cash or this life policy for when she's gone. I'm now thinking about opening a SIPP and putting money into that (it wouldn't be much and she's a non taxpayer). She has no other pension provision.

    I'm just trying to look into options. From the conversations we've had I know this means a lot to her. My current thinking is that a SIPP would be good (I could actually help her with contributions) and it would be flexible, so if she does die it would do what she's looking for or could be used for something else in a few years if that becomes more important.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 18th Jun 17, 5:15 PM
    • 28,511 Posts
    • 72,644 Thanks
    Mojisola
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:15 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 17, 5:15 PM
    No mortgage (rents from council) and no debt (I thought she had a bit of credit card debt but she told me yesterday she paid it off).

    She doesn't need a life policy. To be honest she's talking about wanting to cover funeral costs and leave me a little something, as we're really close and my situation is up-and-down.
    Originally posted by civil12345
    Why not suggest that she saves enough to cover a funeral (although that could be many years away) and then give you cash now and then to help you out - that way she will see the benefit you get from it instead of you having it after she's dead.
    • civil12345
    • By civil12345 18th Jun 17, 6:24 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    civil12345
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 17, 6:24 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 17, 6:24 PM
    Yeah that's a fair enough idea. She likes the idea of leaving a lump sum. Like I said we are close and support each other at the moment already.
    • takman
    • By takman 18th Jun 17, 8:59 PM
    • 2,814 Posts
    • 2,354 Thanks
    takman
    • #8
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:59 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:59 PM
    Hi, my mum has asked me to look into this for her. I think this would be much better than a standard life insurance policy as she has a few health issues and I know she wouldn't want anything that involves medicals or declaring problems.

    She's 59 and I'm looking at premiums of around £50 per month with a payout of around £13,000. I understand the sitaution with regard to payouts after 1 year, if as a result of accident etc.

    Firstly, any general comments on these products? Secondly, a few questions

    1) I think these products will be more expensive than she was expecting. Therefore I'm thinking of helping her with the cost. I assume this will be ok...my idea is to send her some money each month into the account the premium is taken from. I assume that is ok and won't be seen as strange?
    2) Can you have more than one of these policies from different providers if you want extra cover? Also thinking that as some only pay our after 2 years might be an idea to split as they end up with a higher premium.
    3) From what I've seen the fixed policies in general seem better than increasing? Agreed? I looked at an L&G one where the payout increasing by RPI but the premium increases by 1.5 times RPI which doesn't seem good.
    4) I assume when we get further through these quotes there will be an option to declare who receives the payment. Is this correct?

    Thanks for any comments
    Originally posted by civil12345
    No mortgage (rents from council) and no debt (I thought she had a bit of credit card debt but she told me yesterday she paid it off).

    She doesn't need a life policy. To be honest she's talking about wanting to cover funeral costs and leave me a little something, as we're really close and my situation is up-and-down.

    So far she's talked about starting to save something in cash or this life policy for when she's gone. I'm now thinking about opening a SIPP and putting money into that (it wouldn't be much and she's a non taxpayer). She has no other pension provision.

    I'm just trying to look into options. From the conversations we've had I know this means a lot to her. My current thinking is that a SIPP would be good (I could actually help her with contributions) and it would be flexible, so if she does die it would do what she's looking for or could be used for something else in a few years if that becomes more important.
    Originally posted by civil12345
    So basically your going to be paying into a plan and then receive less money back when she dies; that makes no sense at all!.

    You need to read this page fully before you recommend these plans to her:

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/over-50s-life-insurance

    You need to remember that the large majority of people who pay into these plans pay out far more than they will ever pay out. That's how they make their money!. Mostly your much better off just paying the money each month into a savings account.

    But any plan you look at you need to see the restrictions on paying out i.e. not in first two years and then work out after how many years you will have paid in more than the plans payout. Then decide if it's worth it.
    • civil12345
    • By civil12345 20th Jun 17, 6:17 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    civil12345
    • #9
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:17 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:17 PM
    look at life assurance products they are much cheaper and value for money. However given the age, it still won't be cheap
    Originally posted by csgohan4
    Tried to go through the application process for a few and keep getting rejected due to the (several) medical conditions.
    • civil12345
    • By civil12345 20th Jun 17, 6:18 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    civil12345
    ...are there any life assurance company's that specialise in people with multiple medical conditions?
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 20th Jun 17, 8:05 PM
    • 26,030 Posts
    • 10,381 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    I would go for a funeral plan. Once paid then its done and quite likely to increase in price more than anyinterest rate currently available.

    Had quite a few over the past few years and the price since 2010 has increased quite a bit. (over £1000).
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • Chris Pollard
    • By Chris Pollard 21st Jun 17, 9:53 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Chris Pollard
    Takman, can you quote the evidence to support this, or are you presenting an "opinion" rather than a "fact"? These products are attractive because of the ease with which they can be set up. The product suits certain consumers, those with significant health problems who cannot be insured through fully underwritten plans, those who are attracted by the gimmicky "gift" and those who do not wish to spend time and effort securing the best product for their needs. This is a competitive marketplace and the products have become better value for customers over the years. There will be assumptions that a certain percentage will lapse (stop paying premiums) and, of course, a reasonable number will die during the early period and their families will receive a return of the premiums paid. A number of products will "cap" the age and thereafter no premiums will be payable. However, there are probably customers who are stuck in the situation where they have already paid in more than they will receive. I'm not sure how many consumers are in exactly the same position with car, house, and buildings insurance but this is so often overlooked. If you are going to make such a statement, please be clear whether this is your opinion, or a fact, and if a fact, state the source. It's only fair on those reading your post.

    You need to remember that the large majority of people who pay into these plans pay out far more than they will ever pay out.
    • Chris Pollard
    • By Chris Pollard 21st Jun 17, 9:58 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Chris Pollard
    Civil12345

    ...are there any life assurance company's that specialise in people with multiple medical conditions?
    Yes there are but you might also be surprised that mainstream insurers, L&G, Aviva, etc will have a reasonable appetite for those who are not in the best state of health. There is a company, Pulse Insurance, that specialises in particular high risks. The best thing you could do is call up a broker, and talk about the health conditions. They may have enough knowledge themselves to guide you, alternatively, if comfortable, can you provide basic details here. I've been involved in underwriting for more years that I can (want) to remember and a few specialist industry professionals who help on this forum could also provide guidance.
    • takman
    • By takman 21st Jun 17, 10:33 AM
    • 2,814 Posts
    • 2,354 Thanks
    takman
    Takman, can you quote the evidence to support this, or are you presenting an "opinion" rather than a "fact"? These products are attractive because of the ease with which they can be set up. The product suits certain consumers, those with significant health problems who cannot be insured through fully underwritten plans, those who are attracted by the gimmicky "gift" and those who do not wish to spend time and effort securing the best product for their needs. This is a competitive marketplace and the products have become better value for customers over the years. There will be assumptions that a certain percentage will lapse (stop paying premiums) and, of course, a reasonable number will die during the early period and their families will receive a return of the premiums paid. A number of products will "cap" the age and thereafter no premiums will be payable. However, there are probably customers who are stuck in the situation where they have already paid in more than they will receive. I'm not sure how many consumers are in exactly the same position with car, house, and buildings insurance but this is so often overlooked. If you are going to make such a statement, please be clear whether this is your opinion, or a fact, and if a fact, state the source. It's only fair on those reading your post.
    Originally posted by Chris Pollard
    Yes i would have to say that it is an opinion because these companies do not seem to publish their payout rate (for obvious reasons).

    But it is a logical opinion because these companies are here to make money. If they didn't get more money paid in than paid out then they would go out of business.

    Just think these are big companies which have to hire staff, run a call center paying all the associated costs, run a web site, advertising and marketing etc. These costs will be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds each year if not millions.

    So to make a profit they need people to pay in more than they get out. So either lots of customers are paying a little more than payout in total or less customers are paying alot more than payout in total. Either way it is not a good deal for the customer in most cases.

    The only time i think anyone should take out these kind of policies is if they have a medical condition that is very likely to mean they will die before they have paid in more than the payout (which means they need to sit down and work it out). But if only these people applied then the company would make a loss.

    Anyone who doesn't have a medical condition should just put money away in a savings account each month/week and they are very likely to be better off.

    Alot of these plans also use phrases such as "how will your loved ones pay for your funeral when you die". I personally don't like the idea of older people feeling they have to provide money to pay for their own funeral. They should use the money to enjoy themselves while they are alive and shouldn't feel they have to pay for a funeral which they will get no benefit out of whatsoever.
    • civil12345
    • By civil12345 21st Jun 17, 4:23 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    civil12345
    Civil12345



    Yes there are but you might also be surprised that mainstream insurers, L&G, Aviva, etc will have a reasonable appetite for those who are not in the best state of health. There is a company, Pulse Insurance, that specialises in particular high risks. The best thing you could do is call up a broker, and talk about the health conditions. They may have enough knowledge themselves to guide you, alternatively, if comfortable, can you provide basic details here. I've been involved in underwriting for more years that I can (want) to remember and a few specialist industry professionals who help on this forum could also provide guidance.
    Originally posted by Chris Pollard
    Hi Chris, thanks for the replies. The conditions are basically

    Overweight
    Alcohol problems for a long time...associated liver problems
    Significant mental health problems
    History of self harm
    Severe sleep apnoea
    Heart problem (dont' remember the name it's not massive but is an issue)

    She's not in very good health for her age. Any thoughts on the options would be great.

    Also, any thoughts on how to calculate the amount paid in against the potential payout for the over 50 plans would be great. At the moment I'm discounting 5% per year to cover inflation and potential interest that could be earned on the money if put away. Does that seem reasonable? Do I need to think about anything else? It works out that if she lives for 15 years it would be pretty much break even (£75 per month, £19.5k payout). I'd love her to make it to 75 but the way her life has been I'm not sure I see it
    • civil12345
    • By civil12345 23rd Jun 17, 11:19 AM
    • 134 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    civil12345
    So any further thoughts on this?
    • CHRISSYG
    • By CHRISSYG 23rd Jun 17, 11:51 AM
    • 5,617 Posts
    • 16,099 Thanks
    CHRISSYG
    I have medical issues and have gone with British Seniors , they either payout your agreed amount or if you have paid in more then they payout the larger amount.I pay around £15 a month and i dont remember any medical questions when i applied.
    • ThinkingOutLoud
    • By ThinkingOutLoud 24th Jun 17, 7:48 AM
    • 1,398 Posts
    • 1,313 Thanks
    ThinkingOutLoud
    So with all those conditions, not all insurers will offer. In fact not many will.

    As mentioned above Pulse Insurance do specialise in complex cases.

    Life insurance is a bet as you age - will I pay in more than my beneficiaries get back...

    By investing £50 a month in a Sipp and getting tax added in (yes even though she pays none), you get an instant 20% lift on the money.

    If she lives half the time you hope - that will likely match your £13k depending on investment growth (ignoring inflation as your life payout is fixed too)

    If she lives longer - you are better off.

    If she died in a very few years - you would have funds for a funeral.
    I am just thinking out loud - nothing I say should be relied upon!
    I do however reserve the right to be correct by accident.
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