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  • FIRST POST
    • ts22
    • By ts22 16th Jun 17, 2:51 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 3Thanks
    ts22
    Ace Security Services CN
    • #1
    • 16th Jun 17, 2:51 PM
    Ace Security Services CN 16th Jun 17 at 2:51 PM
    Hi,

    I received a charge notice from Ace Security as they were recently introduced as a service ensure only residents or visitors are allowed on site with a valid permit.

    Anyways, I went to my car this morning and saw the ticket for not having my resident or visitor permit displayed. So, I was cleaning out the car etc last night and the permit found itself under my seat. I checked the details of the charge this morning and the warden had taken photos of the outside and inside my car. Figures they would do that and the visitors permit is not visible (I am a visitor).

    Well is there a way round this. I was genuinely visiting and my car was parked directly outside the property I was in and I am here quite frequently so it wasn't as if myself or the use of the permit was abusing its use.

    The fine is £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days. What should I do as a course of action.

    Thanks,
    ts22
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Jun 17, 4:34 PM
    • 15,538 Posts
    • 19,629 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:34 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:34 PM
    they hooked you into their trap and there is no easy way out of it , no magic bullet

    if you read the NEWBIES sticky thread it does telll you to appeal this to the PPC in the first instance

    after that its IGNORE because its an IPC member

    then come back if they (the PPC) issue an MCOL within 6 years

    and check what the lease says about parking and showing of permits (or it may not say anything at all, or little or nothing)

    the wording on the lease is the most important thing here
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • ts22
    • By ts22 16th Jun 17, 5:13 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ts22
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:13 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:13 PM
    Thanks for the reply.

    Yes, I've had a go at reading through the sticky's here which I think are very good albeit a little confusing hence I posted the thread about it.

    Well initially the estate was private resident only, however this wasn't regulated. Only until recently that the estate parking started to get abused they decided to hold resident meetings to enforce pay for permits etc.

    One of our arguments was that the council should enforce this for free as they stated it was residential parking so its up to them to enforce that. They can't just suddenly have resident meetings and say "ok we are going to get a third party involved - Ace Security".

    Anyways, from the transition period from non-monitored to monitored, they sent out letters informing that they will be enforcing a traffic warden system effective from the 5th June 2017. I'm not entirely sure if it was enforced through signatures or decisions that they made but I don't remember my partner having to sign anything additional.

    Ironically, there are a lot of cars on the estate and many of them are residents but the council has decided "only one resident permit per household" which is just ridiculous.

    Being honest, I find the sticky threads very confusing after reading and wondering is there a simplistic or lay-mans approach onto what I can be doing.

    Thanks,
    ts22
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Jun 17, 5:23 PM
    • 15,538 Posts
    • 19,629 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:23 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:23 PM
    my reply was the simplistic answer, because its an unregulated industry

    as you can see from parking pranksters blog today , they could easily lose in court and only a judge can decide all those questions you were asking , because its about contractual law, which is complex

    I gave you the simplistic answer for free, plus that thread is the best free advice you will get on the net about this topic

    make of it what you will , but there is no easy answer to all this, which I did tell you in my reply earlier

    you want a defining answer ? let them take it all the way to civil court and get a judge to decide

    if this is an ALMO or TMO you can see the consequences of such burocracy in the dreadful events at GRENFELL TOWER in london
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • ts22
    • By ts22 16th Jun 17, 5:39 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ts22
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:39 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:39 PM
    thanks you sir for the reply. much appreciated
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 6:52 PM
    • 50,183 Posts
    • 63,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:52 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:52 PM
    the warden
    traffic warden system
    There is no 'warden', this isn't a proper fine. It's a scam, as this industry operate all the time. They have no place in this car park. The Managing Agents have let loose notorious ex-clampers and they WILL target your cars.

    Who on earth agreed to this? Surely numpty residents didn't vote/ask for it...? Idiots, if so.

    they were recently introduced as a service ensure only residents or visitors are allowed on site with a valid permit.
    That's not how Ace and their ilk see it. You are their victims. This was a stupid decision by someone.

    You and fellow residents will ALL be targeted and dragged to court, do your Managing agents realise that? Ex-clampers have even been known to shake and rock cars to dislodge permits, and to re-issue *new* ones at Christmas in a different colour all of a sudden, so they can go and ticket all the people who are away and haven't changed to the pointless new version...

    Look, this is winnable in court but that's the only place to get this cancelled, unless the Managing Agents will:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/pace-given-pasting-in-manchester.html

    http://www.parking-prankster.com/more-case-law.html

    Read PACE v Lengyel in the case law links, it's really useful; the Judge tears into the scam.

    Being honest, I find the sticky threads very confusing after reading and wondering is there a simplistic or lay-mans approach onto what I can be doing.
    I'm a lay-woman and there's a lot to cover in the sticky thread. Can't be written any more simply as there are too many different issues to cover.

    You will need post #2 of that sticky thread, all about how to defeat them in court, so be grateful for the level of knowledge and detail in it! We know what we are doing.

    Your Managing Agents and the residents should be careful what you wish for - BAD mistake, allowing a scumbag on site.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-06-2017 at 6:57 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jun 17, 6:53 PM
    • 7,301 Posts
    • 7,457 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:53 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:53 PM
    you keep saying "council"

    if you rent , who do you rent from , council or some mob at arms lengh
    • ts22
    • By ts22 16th Jun 17, 7:34 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ts22
    • #8
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:34 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:34 PM
    Sorry, I don't mean to say the information is confusing in a negative way. I just think I'm struggling it myself personally haha.

    The estate is the Lewisham council. So they had resident meetings which some did and didn't attend. Some wanted the permits and some didn't want the permits.

    Ultimately they posted letters into the estate saying it will be enforced. And today many of us got fined. Cars that are there regularly so I'm assuming some people have 2 cars but they are only issuing one permit. My partner has access to my car so at times uses it and parks in the estate. It's silly really.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 7:37 PM
    • 50,183 Posts
    • 63,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:37 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:37 PM
    And today many of us got fined.
    Quelle surprise. it's not just silly, you will get PCNs all the time, all residents will. This is an absolute scam and the residents actually let them in - sorry but they (the ones who wanted this) are plain stupid.

    It's madness and you ALL need to complain to the Landowner. You will ALL be taken to court - you will ALL get multiple PCNs and threats in the post - and numpties will pay or defend badly. YOU WON'T!

    Are you sure it's not Lewisham Homes (an ALMO, not the Council)?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-06-2017 at 7:40 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jun 17, 7:48 PM
    • 7,301 Posts
    • 7,457 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Sorry, I don't mean to say the information is confusing in a negative way. I just think I'm struggling it myself personally haha.

    The estate is the Lewisham council. So they had resident meetings which some did and didn't attend. Some wanted the permits and some didn't want the permits.

    Ultimately they posted letters into the estate saying it will be enforced. And today many of us got fined. Cars that are there regularly so I'm assuming some people have 2 cars but they are only issuing one permit. My partner has access to my car so at times uses it and parks in the estate. It's silly really.
    Originally posted by ts22

    think about it , since when can a private parking Co issue tickets on that land
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 7:49 PM
    • 50,183 Posts
    • 63,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Exactly, so it's Lewisham Homes I reckon.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jun 17, 7:51 PM
    • 7,301 Posts
    • 7,457 Thanks
    pappa golf
    arms lengh , but effectively owned by counsil , and not private land
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 7:53 PM
    • 50,183 Posts
    • 63,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I agree, an ALMO ownership = not relevant land.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ts22
    • By ts22 16th Jun 17, 8:23 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ts22
    Excuse my knowledge I believe Lewisham homes yes
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jun 17, 8:28 PM
    • 7,301 Posts
    • 7,457 Thanks
    pappa golf
    so is it private land or land owned by the counsil (who lewisham homes are an arms lengh company running the site) , are there yellow lines , no entries signs etc that are enforced or WHERE enforced by the counsil?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 8:37 PM
    • 50,183 Posts
    • 63,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would ignore them and come back here if they try a small claim. And complain to Lewisham Homes assertively. Good example threads where residents and responded VERY assertively to the PPC and the landowner, are by:

    Daniel San
    infernouk
    hairray

    Read them. No links. Go find them, it's good forum practice!

    and read the Judge's decision this week, in PACE v Lengyel, as I already linked (the actual judgment).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ts22
    • By ts22 16th Jun 17, 8:38 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ts22
    Hi, sorry im not entirely sure. if i provide details as follows;

    the estate is "Crossfields Estate" in "Deptford".
    My partner tenancy agreement is along the lines of;
    "This tenancy agreement is made between the Council of the London Borough of Lewisham.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jun 17, 8:44 PM
    • 7,301 Posts
    • 7,457 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Council of the London Borough of Lewisham.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 8:54 PM
    • 50,183 Posts
    • 63,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Interesting, so they are trying to run their car parks as if they were private land. Not allowed:

    http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=4512.msg29210#msg29210

    ts22, you will need to get your head around that, and read the three threads I mentioned, and read PACE v Lengyel. You will soon be up to speed!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ts22
    • By ts22 22nd Jul 17, 11:46 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ts22
    just abit of an undate or lack of.

    well since that original post, i had actually been fined a second time and whilst asleep my partner decided to pay both fines which well i wasn't pleased about.

    anyways, in the last week ive been fined an additional two times and well, this time whilst shes at work i will appeal and if it goes to court, and i win, i will ask for the money back from the previous two charges as they are under the same grounds.

    An interesting note, I did call Ace and said "how can you fine me for parking in that land when its not private land and is owned by council and run by lewisham homes"

    and his reply was

    "it is private land, its owned by the council so if you enter into an estate it is private land"

    to which i replied

    "well we have two complete different points of view so lets leave it there".

    so yeah, thats my update for now. I've still been doing alot of reading but I guess partly it is an uncomfortable process but i will do that now.

    Any responses will be much appreciated.
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