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  • FIRST POST
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 2:56 AM
    • 12Posts
    • 2Thanks
    DC17
    St Austell McDonald 100 PCN
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:56 AM
    St Austell McDonald 100 PCN 13th Jun 17 at 2:56 AM
    Hi everyone,

    I want to thank in advanced all the time and effort done so far on this forum.

    I have gone thru newbies and FAQ.

    I have read numerous posts.

    I think I understand What to do but would still like to have a feedback before proceeding.

    What we need to know is,

    Was there a windscreen ticket? No
    Did the keeper receive a NTK? Yes
    What was the reason for the PCN/NTK being issued? Overstayed 17 minutes longer.
    Was this pay and display? No
    Was ANPR used? Yes


    Thank you Fruitcake. It was way to late and I guess after an overload of information I did the wrong thing. Thanks again.
    Last edited by DC17; 13-06-2017 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Advised that had put enough info for scammers.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jun 17, 8:35 AM
    • 39,242 Posts
    • 78,405 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 8:35 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 8:35 AM
    If I were you I would delete the whole of your post and start again.
    Do it now and replace the text with, editing in progress, then repost once you have corrected all the giveaway errors you have committed.
    You have given away far too much information about the times and dates and who did what. You have effectively given enough information for the scammers to identify the driver from your post.
    Bad move. Parking scammers read these fora.

    Only ever talk about The Driver, The Keeper, and Vehicle Occupants. What happened on the day and what people do for a living or what they do in the shop is irrelevant.

    Now go and delete your text before reading anything else.

    What we need to know is,

    Was there a windscreen ticket?
    Did the keeper receive a NTK?
    What was the reason for the PCN/NTK being issued?
    Was this pay and display?
    Was ANPR used?

    Go back and read, and then re-read the NEWBIES thread. It takes some time to begin to understand this, and your post shows you have not taken in the important information such as, do not reveal the driver's identity.

    If there was a windscreen ticket, appeal using the BPA template in blue from the NEWBIES thread about day 26.

    If there was no windscreen ticket, then appeal using the template straight away.

    Then you need to read up on how to win with a second stage appeal to PoPLA. To do this you will need to go back to the site and get photos of the signage.

    Do not pay, do not ignore, do not reveal who was driving, do not miss the appeal deadline.
    Do complain to the manager and explain the driver and family and friends will all become ex customers if this isn't cancelled.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-06-2017 at 8:38 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 13th Jun 17, 8:43 AM
    • 3,597 Posts
    • 5,090 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 8:43 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 8:43 AM
    As this is an open forum, it may be too late for the OP to correct their mistake, they may have shot them self in the foot, its an unesecery complication but it's not fatal.
    By stating McDonalds can't do anything, they have been lied to.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 10:29 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 10:29 AM
    Thanks
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 10:29 AM
    So should I not take care of stating who the driver was first?
    Last edited by DC17; 13-06-2017 at 10:30 AM. Reason: spelling.
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 12:27 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:27 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:27 PM
    APPENDIX C
    SCHEDULE 4 OF THE PROTECTION OF FREEDOMS ACT 2012
    RECOVERY OF UNPAID PARKING CHARGES

    2 (1) In this Schedule:


    “the creditor” means a person who is for the time being
    entitled to recover unpaid parking charges from the
    driver of the vehicle;

    The word person caught my attention.

    Is Met Parking services a "person"??

    Thanks
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 1:14 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 17, 1:14 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 17, 1:14 PM
    I have decided to go with this letter for now.

    Dear Appeals Department Staff,

    PCN No. XXXXXXX

    I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question and I was not the driver in the above charge. And the charge should be cancelled immediately.

    Should you disagree, then I require you, in accordance with BRITISH PARKING ASSOCIATION requirements, to send me a POPLA code so that I may make an appeal to the independent adjudicator on this basis as well as other reasons that may emerge from further research.

    Yours faithfully,


    Keeper


    Any changes?

    Thanks
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 13th Jun 17, 3:20 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 3,180 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 17, 3:20 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 17, 3:20 PM
    I have decided to go with this letter for now.

    Dear Appeals Department Staff,

    PCN No. XXXXXXX

    I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question and I was not the driver in the above charge. And the charge should be cancelled immediately.

    Should you disagree, then I require you, in accordance with BRITISH PARKING ASSOCIATION requirements, to send me a POPLA code so that I may make an appeal to the independent adjudicator on this basis as well as other reasons that may emerge from further research.

    Yours faithfully,





    Keeper


    Any changes?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by DC17

    What's wrong with following the newbies thread appeal, you haven't actually made an appeal with that!
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jun 17, 3:37 PM
    • 39,242 Posts
    • 78,405 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 17, 3:37 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 17, 3:37 PM
    APPENDIX C
    SCHEDULE 4 OF THE PROTECTION OF FREEDOMS ACT 2012
    RECOVERY OF UNPAID PARKING CHARGES

    2 (1) In this Schedule:


    the creditor means a person who is for the time being
    entitled to recover unpaid parking charges from the
    driver of the vehicle;

    The word person caught my attention.

    Is Met Parking services a "person"??

    Thanks
    Originally posted by DC17
    I think "person" is a generic legal term, the same as comments like, "the man on the Clapham omnibus."

    I have decided to go with this letter for now.

    Dear Appeals Department Staff,

    PCN No. XXXXXXX

    I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question and I was not the driver in the above charge. And the charge should be cancelled immediately.

    Should you disagree, then I require you, in accordance with BRITISH PARKING ASSOCIATION requirements, to send me a POPLA code so that I may make an appeal to the independent adjudicator on this basis as well as other reasons that may emerge from further research.

    Yours faithfully,


    Keeper


    Any changes?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by DC17
    As above, if it isn't broken why fix it? The BPA template in the NEWBIES thread works. You could add the comment about not being the driver if you wish. All you are after is a PoPLA code so you can beat the scammers with a second stage appeal.
    Very few scammers cave in at this point, so don't expect anything other than a rejection of your initial appeal.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 5:22 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:22 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:22 PM
    Thank you for your comment.

    The goal was a cancellation.

    The appeal is stating "Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA", but in fact they have already done so.
    It says on the back
    "FURTHER INFORMATION
    The registered details have been obtained from the DVLA because we have "reasonable cause" to obtain and use this information in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998, in order to trace the keeper of the vehicle that has not adhered to the parking terms and conditions."


    But I know the goal is a POPLA code.
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 5:25 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    OK thank you. As I did not know if it was a loophole.

    About the template it's like I said above, the template has the DVLA part that has already been done.

    Thank you.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jun 17, 5:27 PM
    • 14,457 Posts
    • 18,048 Thanks
    Redx
    Thank you for your comment.

    The goal was a cancellation.

    The appeal is stating "Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA", but in fact they have already done so.
    It says on the back
    "FURTHER INFORMATION
    The registered details have been obtained from the DVLA because we have "reasonable cause" to obtain and use this information in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998, in order to trace the keeper of the vehicle that has not adhered to the parking terms and conditions."


    But I know the goal is a POPLA code.
    Originally posted by DC17
    so its easy enough to alter it slightly in this case if you or others wish it to be grammatically correct

    so you would make the following alteration

    "Should you have obtained the registered keeper's data from the DVLA"
    the goal is always a cancellation (preferable) or a popla code

    but the chances are they dont read it or dont care about it not being grammaticallly correct , its not english homework after all

    the goal of the wording above is in order to warn them that you may issue an MCOL for a DPA breach later down the line , should they have broken the DPA by not being correct in initially obtaining your data
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 5:28 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.



    (Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than 250 for any Data Protection Act breach.)

    "this part has already been breached do I still leave it on?"



    Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,



    Thank you
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 5:33 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    so its easy enough to alter it slightly in this case if you or others wish it to be grammatically correct

    so you would make the following alteration



    the goal is always a cancellation (preferable) or a popla code

    but the chances are they dont read it or dont care about it not being grammaticallly correct , its not english homework after all
    Originally posted by Redx


    Thank you that helps a lot.

    This is my first incident. So just covering all the basis.

    I'm assuming if I get a POPLA code it will be the "no genuine pre-estimate of losses" that will be used as it was 17 minutes over the time. Plus the manager said they could check internal cameras to see if I was inside or left. (I didn't leave.)

    Thanks again any reply is always helpful.

    Thanks for the patience.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jun 17, 5:44 PM
    • 14,457 Posts
    • 18,048 Thanks
    Redx
    if you look at post #19 in this recent thread I gave an amended example of what to put in as the initial appeal (alterations were in red)

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5663386

    here is an example of a DPA breach counter claim

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5655023

    not a gpeol was thrown out by the SUPREME COURT over 18 months ago in the BEAVIS case

    you should be studying post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread for examples of popla appeals and the legal arguments used , especially GRACE PERIODS (clause #13)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 5:50 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    if you look at post #19 in this recent thread I gave an amended example of what to put in as the initial appeal (alterations were in red)

    link

    here is an example of a DPA breach counter claim

    link

    not a gpeol was thrown out by the SUPREME COURT over 18 months ago in the BEAVIS case

    you should be studying post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread for examples of popla appeals and the legal arguments used , especially GRACE PERIODS (clause #13)
    Originally posted by Redx


    Thank you.

    It's just that since 2013 till now there is so much info that it gets confusing sometimes.
    And since many of the word searches lead to other posts and the mention of the newbies part but without actually quoting the part that is asked, you can easily get lost.

    Never the less it's always better to make the mistakes here than on the appeal.

    Thanks for the help and the quotes pointing exactly to where I need to go.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jun 17, 5:57 PM
    • 14,457 Posts
    • 18,048 Thanks
    Redx
    that is why NEWBIES should read and follow the advice in the first 4 posts of the NEWBIES sticky thread, because its always kept up to date by coupon-mad (as you will see by the edit date at the bottom of each post)

    its also why we point all newbies at it

    there arent really any reasons to look at other threads unless looking for similar recent examples to crib from , or clarifications like I just pointed you at

    the more you read, the more you learn , and parking pranksters blogs also come in really handy, as does the BMPA website, plus the BPA site so you can download and read their CoP

    the slight alterations to the blue text were all that were need to change it to a historical reference from a future reference, which is something like 6 characters I highlighted in red
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 6:06 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    that is why NEWBIES should read and follow the advice in the first 4 posts of the NEWBIES sticky thread, because its always kept up to date by coupon-mad (as you will see by the edit date at the bottom of each post)

    its also why we point all newbies at it

    there arent really any reasons to look at other threads unless looking for similar recent examples to crib from , or clarifications like I just pointed you at

    the more you read, the more you learn , and parking pranksters blogs also come in really handy, as does the BMPA website, plus the BPA site so you can download and read their CoP

    the slight alterations to the blue text were all that were need to change it to a historical reference from a future reference, which is something like 6 characters I highlighted in red
    Originally posted by Redx

    Yes true.

    Thank you

    I have been reading many websites and forums and read all of the BPA's Code of Practice.

    Be honestly, sometimes it's semantics, and sometimes it's errors. And I can't really tell which is which. Like the "person" bit. But there are many doubts about all that is said on my PCN, like that there is no "CREDITOR" word any where, or the fact that "paragraph 9 and 6" are a loop as one explains the reason of the other and vice versa...confusing.


    Thanks again.
    • DC17
    • By DC17 13th Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    Have sent the appeal online with PS and it says they will reply by post or email within 10 days.


    Have to go to work now I'll update the situation soon.

    Thank you for every ones comments.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jun 17, 6:09 PM
    • 14,457 Posts
    • 18,048 Thanks
    Redx
    yep, they like to keep the paperwork "confusing" and they rarely follow POFA2012

    this is an unregulated sector which is why they like to keep it as a "coalition of chaos", rather then it all being strightforward and above board

    we have been waiting for over 2 years for the DCLG to do something about it, we are still waiting , as diana ross would say
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • DC17
    • By DC17 24th Jun 17, 6:19 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    DC17
    Hi everyone.

    Just received my reply letter.

    With a POPLA code.

    (But also mention of Parking Eye v Beavis case)

    (I believe they are running on an automatic system as the letter states different time limits to the parking area than the one on site. Plus mention of non return period, that is no where to be found on the signs.)

    (There is a reference to the Ombudsman Services)

    Anything I need to know to help my case in appealing to POPLA?

    Again thank you to everyone that is helping.
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