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BW Legal/Excel Pre-Pofa advice please

lordgreenelf
Posts: 10 Forumite
Hi all,
Have had a good search but couldn't find anything exactly the same as my situation so after some advice please.
I received a letter forwarded on from the current occupiers of my old house a few weeks back which was from the court indicating that BW on behalf of Excel are taking me to court over a PCN dating back to 15.03.2011 that I have no recollection of.
I moved out of that house in June 2011 to my current address in a different part of the country, although the registration mark of the vehicle accused is still and has been owned by me as it's my private plate. (it's currently on a retention certificate and not assigned to a vehicle).
The current occupiers have no recollection of any other letters being sent there that looked similar, but as these looked official they forwarded them on.
The letter forwarded on was a "Notice of County Court Claim Issued" and came separately with the court claim form. I filed my defence on MCOL to the tune of "I've never received any paperwork from the company / they haven't tried to find me in 6 years / as it's pre-pofa they can't chase the RK as any alleged contract is between the land owner and the driver and the onus is on them to prove who the driver is"
I declined mediation and the case has been transferred to my local court and I now need to serve my full defence, which is where I'm asking for some advice.
Can I just resort to the pre-pofa side and rely on them not having any proof of who the driver was, or should I also include anything about them not serving any other papers on me at my current address despite the registration mark being registered there for 6 years, and that I haven't had a chance to go through the proper dispute procedure because of this?
I have no idea where the car park they claim this happened is, and I'm over 100 miles away from where it is I can't state anything about signage - plus it's been 6 years so things could have changed.
Are there any time limits on their claim? The date of alleged incident is 15th March 2011 and their notice of court claim and the court claim form was from 8th March 2017. I didn't receive it until 22nd March 2017 and filed my defence on 23rd March 2017.
Many thanks for any help anyone can give.
Have had a good search but couldn't find anything exactly the same as my situation so after some advice please.
I received a letter forwarded on from the current occupiers of my old house a few weeks back which was from the court indicating that BW on behalf of Excel are taking me to court over a PCN dating back to 15.03.2011 that I have no recollection of.
I moved out of that house in June 2011 to my current address in a different part of the country, although the registration mark of the vehicle accused is still and has been owned by me as it's my private plate. (it's currently on a retention certificate and not assigned to a vehicle).
The current occupiers have no recollection of any other letters being sent there that looked similar, but as these looked official they forwarded them on.
The letter forwarded on was a "Notice of County Court Claim Issued" and came separately with the court claim form. I filed my defence on MCOL to the tune of "I've never received any paperwork from the company / they haven't tried to find me in 6 years / as it's pre-pofa they can't chase the RK as any alleged contract is between the land owner and the driver and the onus is on them to prove who the driver is"
I declined mediation and the case has been transferred to my local court and I now need to serve my full defence, which is where I'm asking for some advice.
Can I just resort to the pre-pofa side and rely on them not having any proof of who the driver was, or should I also include anything about them not serving any other papers on me at my current address despite the registration mark being registered there for 6 years, and that I haven't had a chance to go through the proper dispute procedure because of this?
I have no idea where the car park they claim this happened is, and I'm over 100 miles away from where it is I can't state anything about signage - plus it's been 6 years so things could have changed.
Are there any time limits on their claim? The date of alleged incident is 15th March 2011 and their notice of court claim and the court claim form was from 8th March 2017. I didn't receive it until 22nd March 2017 and filed my defence on 23rd March 2017.
Many thanks for any help anyone can give.
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Comments
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" declined mediation and the case has been transferred to my local court (St Helens) and I now need to serve my full defence, which is where I'm asking for some advice."
Good man, mediation is highly flawed and the mediators don't have a clue about the private parking scam.
BWLegal know this and because of the ignorance of mediators, they know they would have a better chance of winning.
BWLegal know they are skating on very thin ice taking a pre POFA 2012 to court and they will also know that they will probably be in for yet another whooping in court
The expert on this forum regarding Excel and BWLegal
is the destroyer "lamilad"
He will be along soon0 -
I figured it was pointless going to mediation as I wasn't at any point then or now even considering making any deal on this other than "screw you and your scamming bollox to hell!"0
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lordgreenelf wrote: »I figured it was pointless going to mediation as I wasn't at any point then or now even considering making any deal on this other than "screw you and your scamming bollox to hell!"
You are one of us
All the help you need is available here
READ THIS ...
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/vcs-slapped-with-costs-for.html
VCS is run by the same ex clamper, Simon Renshaw-Smith = EXCEL
Note the complete failure and incompetence of BWLegal0 -
The letter forwarded on was a "Notice of County Court Claim Issued" and came separately with the court claim form. I filed my defence on MCOL to the tune of "I've never received any paperwork from the company / they haven't tried to find me in 6 years / as it's pre-pofa they can't chase the RK as any alleged contract is between the land owner and the driver and the onus is on them to prove who the driver is"
Good. At least that states the basics.
You are not filing a full defence now, you are filing a Witness Statement and evidence. Include the facts and timeline and the pre-POFA argument:Can I just resort to the pre-pofa side and rely on them not having any proof of who the driver was, or should I also include anything about them not serving any other papers on me at my current address despite the registration mark being registered there for 6 years, and that I haven't had a chance to go through the proper dispute procedure because of this?
I have no idea where the car park they claim this happened is, and I'm over 100 miles away from where it is I can't state anything about signage - plus it's been 6 years so things could have changed.
Are there any time limits on their claim? The date of alleged incident is 15th March 2011 and their notice of court claim and the court claim form was from 8th March 2017. I didn't receive it until 22nd March 2017 and filed my defence on 23rd March 2017.
I reckon, read keepswimming's thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5576099
because he/she posted their WS and skeleton argument there, and the case was similar.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Gold dust, thank you so much (and to keepswimming too!) I'll plagiarise their documents and post up my version of WS and SA tomorrow hopefully for any comments.0
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lordgreenelf wrote: »And another precedent/case law that can be quoted in my WS?
Unfortunately, the small claims court does not set a precedent.
Many judges don't keep up to speed with what is going on.
But, you can use this to show what other judges have said.
Most judges will not rule against their fellow judges but we
all see this when a case is transfered to a higher court.
It's a post code lottery when it comes to judges0 -
Some other ongoing pre PoFA cases involving bw legal which you may want to watch with interest.....
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5594252
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112366
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112635&hl=0 -
Thank you so much to all that have helped so far, it really is appreciated.
I've put together an initial draft of my Witness Statement which needs to be served by Monday, so any advice is hugely welcomed. I've based it mainly off keepswimming's documents from the thread linked above. (Paragraphs are numbered, 1.5x line space, and pages numbered, exhibit7 is the FOI letter from whatdotheyknow.com)
................................
In the xxxxxxx County Court Case Number XXXXXXX
______________________________________________________________________________
EXCEL PARKING SERVICES LTD Claimant
Parties
MR XXXXXXXXXX Defendant
______________________________________________________________________________
Witness statement of Mr XXXXXXXX
I am XXXXXXX the defendant in this matter and the facts in this Witness statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief. I am unrepresented, with no experience of Court procedures. If I do not set out documents in the correct way, I trust the Court will excuse my inexperience.
Suddenly, around 20th March 2017 I received a letter from the current occupants of my previous residency. Contained in this letter was a letter from BW Legal dated 8th March 2017 which was a "Notice of County Court Claim Issued” along with the Court Claim Form (Exhibits 1 & 2). As this was the first correspondence I had received in relation to this matter, I called BW Legal to find out more. They advised me that this related to an alleged parking charge notice issued on 15/03/2011 against a registration mark that I was the registered keeper of at this time. I have no recollection of this incident.
In June 2011 I moved house to another part of the country. The vehicle registration mark in question was also transferred to this address using section 6 of the DVLA V5C document. Although the registration mark is not currently assigned to a vehicle, the registration mark is still registered to the defendant and the defendant’s current address and held on a V778 Retention Document with the DVLA. Therefore the claimant has had every opportunity to contact me regarding this matter since 2011, but has not applied due care and diligence to locate the registered keeper of the registration mark in question.
Because no previous correspondence from the claimant was received by the defendant at his current residence, the defendant has had no opportunity to initially defend, dispute or appeal this allegation with the either Excel, their representatives or POPLA.
It is admitted that I was the registered keeper of the vehicle concerned on the date claimed, but the defendant denies being the driver at the time of the supposed event. To date I have not seen or been served any evidence of the vehicle concerned, or who the driver was and as this event has been resurrected from almost 6 years ago, it is impossible to expect a keeper to recall who might have been driving. In the last 6 years I have had several cars and changed insurers when the cars have changed, so no information that relates to that time can be found. I have had named drivers, but my cars have been used frequently over the years by friends and family as long as they had their own insurance.The defendant therefore puts Excel to strict proof that any contract can exist between the defendant and themselves.
This unwarranted harassment and baseless litigation has caused me significant alarm and distress, during my research I discovered that Excel are issuing robo-claims for archive 'parking charges' in their thousands. It is clear that no checks have been made as to the facts of the alleged contract, signs or parking charge, in their undue haste to issue these claims.
My data from the DVLA was supplied for the single strict purpose of enquiring who was driving, not for storing for 6 years then suing me as if I can now be held liable, in the hope I will not defend/will have lost the paperwork/will have moved house, or that I will be so scared that I will pay over £270 including the legal insult of 6 years' interest, for what was apparently an unproven £100 charge, allegedly incurred by another party, if incurred at all.
It is apparent from court records reported in the public domain that this Claimant has been obtaining payments from keepers under false pretences - using the court as a cheap form of debt collection from the wrong 'registered keeper' parties - and has obtained default CCJs in the hundreds, despite never complying with the POFA 2012 and even bringing pre-POFA cases to the Courts, as here.
In 2012, Excel were sanctioned by the DVLA for stating or implying in signs or documents that a registered keeper could be held 'liable for the payment of charges' and/or had 'legal responsibility' to name the driver. It is contended that this is exactly what Excel are now doing in this claim, even though the alleged act occurred before any POFA 2012 legislation came into force, conduct which was identified in 2012 as 'a significant breach' of their Trade Body Code of Practice with the British Parking Association. So serious a matter was this, Excel were banned from obtaining data by the DVLA for three months. (Exhibit 7)
As I have seen no copy of the contract the Claimant has with the landowner to assign the right to enter into contracts with the public,and to make claims and take civil action against drivers in their own name in 2011, the Claimant can have no locus standi at the time of this parking event, at best they were contractors of a principal, the landowner.
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
Signed
Dated
I'll work on the SA and further evidence once I know this is good to go.0 -
Apologies for the bump but keen to get the WS finalised today then start work on the SA and bundle.
Any feedback is hugely appreciated.
In case it's of any further use, the defence I filed is below - although this was done before I found this magnificent forum and all it's lovely helpful members!
Defence
The claim is for a Parking Charge Notice dating back to
15/03/2011. It was sent to an address that I have not lived at
since May 2011, so I have not had any notification of this claim
until I was sent the court claim forms to my new address by the
person that now resides in my old address. The first I knew about
this PCN was today, 22/03/2017. I therefore do not accept that
receiving a court claim form as a first notification of an alleged
debt is acceptable or the correct method for pursuing said alleged
debt.
I have not received any previous notices relating to this matter -
no notice to keeper, no request for details of who the driver was,
no ability to dispute the claim, or appeal the PCN in it's
entirety.
The registration mark of the vehicle in question is still
registered to me, and the claimants could therefore have found out
my new address at any point and sent any correspondence to me
there, but failed to do so.
When I contacted the claimants representatives (BW Legal) they
could not tell me what the make and model of the vehicle in
question was, only the registration number. They have not provided
any photographic or other evidence that this PCN relates to me or
any car registered to me as the keeper. Therefore there is no
proof that this PCN even relates to any vehicle that I had
registered to me as the keeper, it could be a cloned registration
mark on another vehicle.
I also dispute this PCN as it dates back to before POFA 2012
legislation was introduced in November 2012. Therefore the parking
company (and BW Legal) cannot hold the registered keeper liable
for this parking charge. I cannot confirm that I was driving the
vehicle on this date, and I cannot confirm who the driver was at
the time, as it was over 6 years ago.
I apologise if this defence is filed late, but I have only just
received the court claim form which was dated 8th March 2017,
today.0
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