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Court Case Gladstones next week, Court bundle finally received!

Hi All,

Please assist I have a court date finally received for 2 PCNs where an employee of my company van on a private estate, he explains he was unloading and not there long and as it is the rear of commercial premises/client of ours he has regularly stopped there.

Anyway previously the company Pace Recovery & Storage t/a ACE SECURITY SERVICES had issued tickets years back but they were not registered with any parking body, so we ignored them and were more concerned how they illegally obtained our information, but that was years ago and this is now, we did receive PCNs 2no, but we ignored not knowing they were now registered with IPC, what followed was a barrage of letters and then a Gladstones LBC.

We responded with the drivers name to reset the process, but still a couple of weeks later a MCOL claim dropped through.

We submitted a defence N180, please tell me how to dropbox/link it as it is long, but we used a format on this site of defence, we standby the fact that although the claim is against me as a registered keeper I can demonstrate I was not the driver at the time, and in fact am looking forward to taking to court CCTV footage of me on both occasions elsewhere, I run a CCTV company so have massive amounts of retention!

The court issued a date "Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing)", at my local court as requested, set a date as 9th June, stated the claimant is to pay a fee of £55, file a proper defence (as the original claim had sod all just dates and inflated charges etc.), the Judge also stated the claim would be struck out with effect from 12th May 2017 without further order, I assumed this meant all done but then today at 15:53 I get an email of a small court bundle from Gladstones, with repeat stuff really quite general with different photos etc., evidence never seen by me, but regardless can I contact the court and get it thrown out as the pack they have sent is unreasonable at this late stage and I was actually planning a short break based on the fact the case was to my knowledge cancelled by the court!

On MCOL it does not show the case as "struck out" so to speak, but neither does it say any court bundle from Gladstones was sent?

Help appreciated as I am happy to trot along to court and fight!
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Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 178,428 Community Admin
    10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    9th June means you should have sent your own WS to the court on 26th. If you haven't, send one tomorrow. Copy to Gladstones. You can't just roll up with stuff the other side has not seen.

    Also they will not be using Keeper Liability as they will say vicarious liability as it was an employee.

    Pace would have got details from your signwritten vans or something on them that identified the company.

    You've got some work to do. Suggest you look at the pics of the signs to see what they said all that time ago.

    Have a look at the Jopson case and add it to your bundle - though it is for a slightly different case.
    This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
  • teccom
    teccom Posts: 49 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary
    WS to defend a claim of which until today i have never recieved, just two dates to figures £150ea

    I can do so but surely their ommission of no particulars of claim until now left me in little position to file a statement?
  • teccom
    teccom Posts: 49 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary
    Also assumed it was struck out on 12th so why would i file a WS
  • teccom
    teccom Posts: 49 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary
    Also assumed it was struck out on 12th so why would i file a WS.

    One last thing the car is in my name not owned by my company.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,428 Community Admin
    10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Call the court named the Notice of Allocation then to see what the status is tomorrow. May be that Gladstones have made a mistake but if it is still on, you'll need to do something.
    This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
  • Assuming the order requires the Claimant to 'file and serve' by 12 May 2017 I would be writing to the Claimant immediately to say that they are out of time. The court order appears to be peremptory - that is with automatic sanction for failure and without the need for anyone to do anything (hence no order/document from the court).

    The Claimant will need to file an application at court to keep this in play. You are obviously prejudiced by the failure to file proper court documents. The claimant will need to meet the test in Denton v White (an application for relief from sanctions) and they are more than a little tardy here. The chances of success for them aren't that good. They will also need to pay a £255 fee which they won't get back (their error)

    The court has expressly stated there will be no further order. In my view it's already game over.
  • teccom
    teccom Posts: 49 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary
    Okay I will copy/paste what I have posted in another forum as I have now spoken to court:-

    Hi yes name of driver was sent but I didn't do it until LBC, I reckon at that stage they chose to ignore it rather than reset the process (and lose their costs), driver informs me he has never received anything from them, personally i ignored the letters, shredded most as it was getting on my nerves until I received a bundled LBC with 2 dates on to me that I thought to get the CCTV footage together and stupidly I believed they wouldn't actually take action.

    I have just come off the phone to the court and they said court fee was paid on time, and that the claimant should have sent you a defence 14days prior to the court date Friday week (9th) but that doesn't constitute a strike out and I should bring the lack of practice direction ignorance on their behalf to the court, but i should ASAP (today) submit a WS and any info to the court and other party.

    Can I upload this to the court via MCOL and shall i just email to Gladstones by return and pop a copy in the post too?

    Anyway copy/paste of the N180, blanking out what may be personal:-

    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant for all of the following reasons, any one of which is fatal to the Claimant’s case:
    1. The claim arises from the Claimant issuing an invoice for a ‘Parking Charge’ for £100 on
    06/09/16 to vehicle registration XYZ XYZ to which the Defendant is the registered keeper.
    2. The Particulars of Claim do not disclose any reasonable grounds
    for bringing the claim and as such, are an abuse of the court’s
    process or otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the
    proceedings. The particulars fail to comply with Civil Procedure
    Rule 16.4 and Practice Direction 16, paragraphs 7.3 – 7.5 by
    failing to provide a copy of the contract or details of any
    agreement by conduct. The particulars also fail to describe how
    the amount claimed has been calculated.
    3. The Claimant has subjected the Defendant to a barrage of letters, demanding ever increasing sums of money but failing to provide the evidence necessary to support their claims.
    These letters have often misrepresented the legal process, in
    attempts to threaten and intimidate the Defendant into paying the
    amount demanded. The Claimant is a serial litigator and the
    issuing of this Claim without any legal basis appears to be
    another attempt to intimidate the Defendant, who does not have the
    legal expertise of the Claimant, into paying an unsubstantiated
    charge. This shows a complete lack of respect for the court
    process and also demonstrates the failure of the Claimant to
    attempt to mitigate losses, by escalating a £100 invoice “penalty fee”
    into a demand for £277.30.
    4. As a member of the Independent Parking Committee (IPC), Pace Recovery & Storage are
    able to access registered keeper details from DVLA. However, IPC
    membership requires members to comply with their Code of Practice
    which they have failed to do with respect to their signage in this
    case.
    5. It is denied that the Claimant is the landholder of the land in
    question or that they have any other right or proprietary interest
    in the land.
    6. The Claimant is therefore put to strict proof that they were at
    the time of the alleged event in possession of sufficient
    authority to issue parking charges and issue enforcement
    proceedings in their own name and can demonstrate a clear chain of
    authority from the landholder.
    7. If the court is minded to accept that the Claimant has
    standing, then I submit that the signage at the site at the time
    and date of the alleged event was insufficient to reasonably
    convey a contractual obligation and also did not comply with the
    requirements of the IPC Code of Practice to which the Claimant was
    a signatory at the time. The signage was inadequate in terms of
    the following;
    • Lack of clarity and prominence of terms and conditions easily read by a motorist having regard to the likely position of the motorist in relation to the sign
    • Illegible text due to font size, density, colour and complexity
    • Lack of relevant terms and conditions, such as the fees for
    parking
    • Inadequate positioning of signs, for example, at unsuitable
    heights
    8. As the Claimant failed to make reasonable efforts to make the
    terms and conditions of the car park clear and prominent, it
    cannot be assumed that anyone entering the car park was
    immediately aware of, and agreed, the terms and conditions. The
    Claimant is put to strict proof that the Defendant saw, read and
    agreed the terms upon which the Claimant is relying on the day in
    question.
    9. In the absence of any signage that contractually bound the
    Defendant then there can have been no contract, the Claimant has
    no case, and as such, the court is invited to dismiss the claim.
    10. Even had the terms and conditions been sufficiently prominent,
    terms which are unfair are not legally binding. Terms which are
    considered unfair include requiring any consumer who fails to
    fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in
    compensation. It is also unfair to impose disproportionate
    sanctions for breach of contract.
    11. It is anticipated that the Claimant may seek to rely on the
    Supreme Court ruling in the case of Parking Eye v Beavis. This
    case can be easily distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis as Pace Recovery & Storage
    have not demonstrated any commercial justification for the amount
    being charged and the wording of the notices was not clear.
    12. The Claimant is attempting to claim additional charges such as
    debt collection costs of £50 and legal costs of £50. The
    Protection of Freedoms Act does not permit the Claimant to recover
    a sum greater than the parking charge on the day before a Notice
    to Keeper was issued. The Claimant cannot recover additional
    charges. The Defendant also has the reasonable belief that the
    Claimant has not incurred the stated additional costs and it is
    put to strict proof that they have actually been incurred.
    Furthermore, legal costs cannot be recovered in the Small Claims
    Court and should be struck out as unrecoverable.
    13. Notwithstanding that the Claimant claims no right to pursue the Defendant as the registered keeper under The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, the Claimant has failed to meet the conditions of the Act and has never acquired any right to pursue the Defendant in this capacity if it cannot identify the driver. Pace Recovery & Storage had the opportunity to invoke keeper liability at the time of the alleged contravention but chose not to do in favour of taking action against the driver. Their failure to invoke keeper liability when they had the opportunity should not be rewarded by an assumption of the keeper being the driver.
    14. The vehicle is owned by a body corporate XYZ Ltd and the registered keeper is the company Director of the vehicle and not the main driver, the Defendant rarely drives the vehicle and could not possibly have been the Driver of the vehicle on the dates stated in the Particulars of Claim so cannot be held liable ‘as Driver’ either. Further, there is also no possibility of vicarious
    liability by XYZ Ltd to the Claimant, since there was no
    omission, contravention nor breach of contract by the Driver.
    15. The Claimant is put to strict proof of all his assertions
    16. XYZ Ltd is the owner of the vehicle and XYZ INDIVIDUAL is the registered keeper of the vehicle.
    ‘Keeper liability’ under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms
    Act 2012 (“the POFA”) is dependent upon full compliance with that
    Act. It is submitted that the Claimant’s Parking Charge Notice
    and/or Notice to Keeper failed to comply with the statutory
    wording and/or deadlines set by the POFA and, further, that the
    signs failed to provide ‘adequate notice’ of any charge. Any
    non-compliance voids any right to ‘keeper liability’.
    17. The facts and information in this defence are true and the
    Defendant company is not liable for the sum claimed, nor any sum
    at all. The employee submitting this defence works for, and is
    authorised to submit this defence by XYZ Ltd.
    18. Considering all the above circumstances, I respectfully ask
    that the court dismiss the claim.

    I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 161,238 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Bumping back to page one for comments. Did you see we won all 4 Gladrags cases yesterday:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5657875
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Was the initial order an "unless" order. Ie. Unless the Claimant serves new Particulars by 12/5/17....? If so, you've had dud advice from the court staff.

    If not, you best lodge a defence quick smart.
  • teccom
    teccom Posts: 49 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary
    Not aware the court basically said they had to pay a fee by the 12th but mention to the judge on the day the failure of them not to send you a defence bundle (WS) within 14days, I am writing mine now, but I said to the court staff I wasn't aware the case was ongoing.

    I feel they will accuse me of the same as mine will also be late, but I will defend that my statement had to be based on "particulars of the claim" which to date consisted of 2no dates and GBP amounts, nothing more and they had been informed of the driver/address.

    I want to keep my WS short and sweet, on the POF line regards to me sending them the driver, is it common for them to carry on with the RK?

    Anyway any basic pointers, I have done WS for civil cases against companies owing me money and been to small claims before and won and we was easy enough but the ones I found here are miles long:-

    IamEmanresu kindly helped and recommended a look at Jopsons case on here but a search result finds tons of results so not sure which thread I need?
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