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  • FIRST POST
    • Emmaargh
    • By Emmaargh 30th May 17, 6:50 PM
    • 7Posts
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    Emmaargh
    ZZPS Ltd, Wright Hassall and formal letter of claim
    • #1
    • 30th May 17, 6:50 PM
    ZZPS Ltd, Wright Hassall and formal letter of claim 30th May 17 at 6:50 PM
    I apologise if there's already a thread about this but the ones I've read relate to different parking companies.

    Basically I stayed at Parc Tawe North Retail Park ran by ZZPS Ltd and overstayed by about 20 minutes. The retail park wasn't even open and it was a maximum 3 hour stay, no charges.

    I got the first few letters saying I needed to pay, then it got passed to a debt collector and now I've had a few letters from Wright Hassall, the last one being formal letter of claim. I haven't responded to any communication as I know in doing so I take claim for the "invoice." Where do I go from here?
    They said I have 14 days to pay before they anticipate being instructed to commence county court proceedings against me. It took 4 days for them to even get the letter to me - how is that fair?
    I really don't want to pay the now £208 fine and I also don't want to go to court. Any help would be appreciated. I wouldn't be happy but if I could pay the original fine (would be £100) over a couple of months then even that would be better then court or paying the whole thing. Do I continue to ignore?

    Please help - thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Giant Hogweed
    • By Giant Hogweed 30th May 17, 6:55 PM
    • 132 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    Giant Hogweed
    • #2
    • 30th May 17, 6:55 PM
    • #2
    • 30th May 17, 6:55 PM
    Surely ZZPS are a debt collecting company, not a parking PPC ?
    No doubt the more learned people on here will know for sure, but they got involved in my own personal case as debt collectors.
    • Emmaargh
    • By Emmaargh 30th May 17, 6:57 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Emmaargh
    • #3
    • 30th May 17, 6:57 PM
    • #3
    • 30th May 17, 6:57 PM
    Oops they are the debt collectors, sorry!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 30th May 17, 6:58 PM
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    Redx
    • #4
    • 30th May 17, 6:58 PM
    • #4
    • 30th May 17, 6:58 PM
    for a start , its not a "fine" , its an invoice , nothing more

    so its a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE , from a private company (who cannot fine you , me or the queen herself)

    also ZZPS do NOT run this parking area, so we need to know who the PPC actually is, because it is NOT zzps , ZZPS are a debt collector with no powers

    and the letter you received is more likely to be a ZZPS letter on WH headed notepaper, so a debt collector letter, and there are hundreds of similar threads on here

    so who was the actual PPC ????
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Emmaargh
    • By Emmaargh 30th May 17, 7:01 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Emmaargh
    • #5
    • 30th May 17, 7:01 PM
    • #5
    • 30th May 17, 7:01 PM
    I got confused with the ZZPS bit but it's by Premier Park
    • Redx
    • By Redx 30th May 17, 7:05 PM
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    Redx
    • #6
    • 30th May 17, 7:05 PM
    • #6
    • 30th May 17, 7:05 PM
    so not much different than this thread about CEL, ZZPS and WH

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5650295

    ignore unless you get a real LBC from WH themselves

    or an MCOL from Northampton

    At the moment you have no control over if this gets to a court case, other than foolishly paying up in full

    Even if a court case happens and you lost, its likely that you would pay less , because the debt collector fees can be kicked out

    chances are you have a ZZPS letter on WH headed notepaper
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Emmaargh
    • By Emmaargh 30th May 17, 7:29 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Emmaargh
    • #7
    • 30th May 17, 7:29 PM
    • #7
    • 30th May 17, 7:29 PM
    I've checked Wright Hassall website and the contact numbers on the website tally up to what's on the letter.. surely that makes it legit?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 30th May 17, 8:40 PM
    • 16,865 Posts
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    Redx
    • #8
    • 30th May 17, 8:40 PM
    • #8
    • 30th May 17, 8:40 PM
    who does it say to pay the money to ? ZZPS or PP or WH ?

    is it a WH email to reply to ? or a ZZPS one ?

    whose address has to be contacted by letter ? ZZPS or PP or WH ?
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Emmaargh
    • By Emmaargh 30th May 17, 9:31 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Emmaargh
    • #9
    • 30th May 17, 9:31 PM
    • #9
    • 30th May 17, 9:31 PM
    It just says to call their debt recovery number (which is actually listed on Wright Hassall's website) to discuss repayment and avoid any further action.

    The address is WH and the only mention of ZZPS is at the top where it says 'instructed by'..
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th May 17, 10:02 PM
    • 15,864 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    It just says to call their debt recovery number (which is actually listed on Wright Hassall's website) to discuss repayment and avoid any further action.

    The address is WH and the only mention of ZZPS is at the top where it says 'instructed by'..
    Originally posted by Emmaargh
    Precisely. A debt collector cannot instruct a solicitor in regard to an alleged debt 'owed' to a third party (PP).

    This is a debt collection letter and can be ignored. If the word 'Solicitors' wasn't shown on the letter, would you be so concerned?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Emmaargh
    • By Emmaargh 30th May 17, 10:16 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Emmaargh
    No I suppose you're right, I wouldn't bat an eyelid at it.
    It just scares you when you see the words 'court' and 'ccj.'
    At what point do I need to be concerned, do you know?

    I appreciate everyone's help, thank you
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th May 17, 10:29 PM
    • 15,864 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    At what point do I need to be concerned, do you know?
    There's no point you need to be 'concerned'. That's what these outfits rely on, it means you're closer to cracking and giving them money!

    You need to be alive to any letter that sols send which state 'Letter Before (LB) Action' or 'LB Claim' or 'LB County Court Claim' on behalf of PP (not ZZPS). I don't think I've seen WH go that far.

    And obviously if you get real county court papers via the national county court business centre at Northampton county court.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 30th May 17, 11:09 PM
    • 16,865 Posts
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    Redx
    No I suppose you're right, I wouldn't bat an eyelid at it.
    It just scares you when you see the words 'court' and 'ccj.'
    At what point do I need to be concerned, do you know?

    I appreciate everyone's help, thank you
    Originally posted by Emmaargh
    it shouldnt do, its only a bit like Judge Rinder, its not like being Rolf in the dock at the Old Bailey

    and a court case does not automatically lead to a CCJ, if you lost in the small claims court , PAY UP , IN FULL , promptly (within 28 days)

    if you do this , no CCJ will be issued and no effect on your credit rating

    if you win , no CCJ is issued and you can claim up to £95 costs because you will have turned the tables on the PPC, and if they fail to pay you get the court to enforce the judgment against them

    the time to definitely act is if you get an MCOL in the post from Northampton
    Last edited by Redx; 01-06-2017 at 10:58 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th May 17, 11:25 PM
    • 51,638 Posts
    • 65,297 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    This may help:

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203747112-Wright-Hassall

    Come back if you actually get a court claim to defend. We win them.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Emmaargh
    • By Emmaargh 1st Jun 17, 10:09 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Emmaargh
    Thank you everyone, I feel less worried now
    • sawahtee
    • By sawahtee 6th Oct 17, 9:09 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sawahtee
    How did you get on?
    Hi Emmargh!

    I'm in exactly the same situation as you. Right down to the location and time overstayed.

    Have you received anything else following the "FORMAL LETTER CLAIM"?

    I received this email reply after I reiterated that I (registered keeper) wasn't the driver:

    Our Reference:

    Client Reference:

    Car Parking Operator: Premier Park Ltd
    Instructed by: ZZPS Limited
    Balance outstanding: £ 208.00

    With reference to your recent correspondence, the contents of which have been duly noted.

    We can confirm our clients have no cause of action against the driver, as they have only instructed us to recover the above balance from you as the registered keeper.

    This file will therefore remain on hold until 06 October 2017 to allow time for payment, before further actions are commenced.

    Please see below our payment methods we have enclosed for your convenience.

    Debit Card/ Direct Debit: Call 01926 758101

    Please quote our reference number with all payments.

    Yours sincerely

    Tim Hawker
    Head of Debt Recovery Operations


    I've ignored this too.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Oct 17, 9:18 PM
    • 15,864 Posts
    • 24,586 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Eemaargh hasn’t been back to the forum for over 4 months, so is unlikely to see your post.

    Have you read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post # 4 about how to deal to deal with debt collectors?

    Despite WH having their letterheads used, they don’t seem to get involved at the dirty end of pursuing parking charges at court level.

    So why not send them a Johnersh letter to flush them out. Johnersh is a lawyer and has drafted this special letter for WH.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72802210&postcount=21
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • sawahtee
    • By sawahtee 6th Oct 17, 10:11 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sawahtee
    Thanks Umkomaas!

    I've just this moment fired off that template complaint to the complaints department (legal services, NOT debt recovery!) of Wright Hassall and copied in their senior partner and compliance officer. I'll await a reply.

    I have indeed trawled through the NEWBIES sticky. I've taken what I can from that as appropriate to my situation and looked up other threads similar in nature.

    I ignored Premier Park, ZZPS and WH until the FORMAL LETTER OF CLAIM - where I read on here that I better reply (hadn't stumbled upon this thread before hand) - so replied simply saying I wasn't the driver, please stop pursuing. (although having checked through all my received correspondence and checked dates, they HAVE complied with POFA 2012). I obviously then received the above reply via email.

    I hope I'm on the right track!
    • sawahtee
    • By sawahtee 13th Oct 17, 5:55 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sawahtee
    Reply following template to complaints
    Hi all,

    We’ve received the following reply from the same Tim Hawker from the “Debt” department of WH, not from a complaints department;


    I write further to your letter where you advised that you wished to make a complaint.

    My understanding of your concerns is that you feel that our letter is threatening, misleading and an abuse of the process of debt recovery and refer specifically to the Law Society Warning Notice 11.06.2013. Further, you state that you feel that the balance outstanding is beyond a level which you believe would be recoverable in the smalls claim court. You also advise that the individual named as the Head of Debt Recovery Operations is not named on our website.

    Wright Hassall LLP were instructed on this matter on August 2017. The two further letters sent to you informed you that we had been instructed by our Client ZZPS Limited to recover the balance of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) that was issued against you by Premier Park Limited at the Parc Tawe North Retail Park (ANPR) - SWANSEA SA1 8AW. We understand that ZZPS Limited has previously written to you with regards to the PCN and gave you warning that the file would be passed to Wright Hassall LLP if payment was not made. The letter sent to you by Wright Hassall gave you the opportunity to pay the outstanding balance and provided you with all the details of the PCN.

    We deny that the letter is misleading or threatening. Within the letter the following statement is made:

    “Failure to make payment in full or contact us to discuss repayment of this debt may result in us recommending to our Client that we pass this matter over to our Litigation Department.”

    This is not a threat, but a statement to make you aware of the action that we may be instructed to take if the matter remains unresolved.

    The letter goes on to state that a County Court Judgment (CCJ) may negatively impact your credit rating and also details the various enforcement methods that are available where a CCJ is obtained. This is not intended to be threatening, as a litigant in person it is important that you are made aware of the consequences of a CCJ and the possible enforcement options, therefore we sought to convey these options to you within the letter.

    The letter provides you with a telephone number should you wish to discuss the matter further. The letter is intended to give you the opportunity to narrow any issues prior to the file being considered for litigation, a last resort. A list of free independent advice organisations is also attached to the letter for your reference.

    All parties involved in the recovery of your unpaid PCN/s – The CPO, ZZPS and ourselves - believe that our charges are fair and reasonable, and are in line with the British Parking Association guidelines, and have been tested at the Supreme Court in the case of Parking Eye v Beavis. Further, ZZPS are a member of the British Parking Association and follow the BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice.

    We have reviewed your comments made and the Law Society’s Warning Notice 11.06.2013 and are satisfied that the debt recovery process is not in contravention of this notice.

    Turning to your point regarding Wright Hassall LLP employees not appearing on our website. Wright Hassall LLP does not detail all employee names and positions on the website. This is not a requirement and employees who send correspondence do so in accordance with their authority parameters and in line with our procedures.

    It does appear that an increasing number of motorists receive misguided and often misleading advice from online forums who claim parking charges are ‘unfair’ and ‘illegal’. Should you chose to rely on this advice or use template letters sourced from the internet we will not respond further and you can consider this letter our final response on the matter. Further should you choose to rely on a template defence at court we will seek an immediate strike out.

    We will place a further 14-day hold on this matter to allow you time to make payment in full or alternatively provide documentary evidence to substantiate non-payment of the PCN.
    Please see below our payment methods for your convenience:

    Online: link removed.

    As the payment is now long overdue, unless you have any additional information you have not already brought to our attention, any further correspondence will be noted and filed, but we will not respond.

    Yours sincerely
    Tim Hawker
    Head of Debt Recovery Operations

    Considering they are just straight up denying all points made from the complaint, should we now just wait for the court papers to come through and get ready to formulate the defence?

    Thanks again for your help. Not sure how they can just fob us off by saying they won’t reply if we use advice from forums??
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
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    • 24,586 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    @sawahtee. This isn’t your thread, so it would be better if you could open a new one of your own, as if the OP comes back for more advice on this, their thread, things could get confusing.

    In opening your new thread, please give a short synopsis of your parking event, the advice I’ve given you already, and a copy and paste of the WH response (which, by the way, is a template we’ve seen before - what a cheek for them to complain that you might use template letters!). We’ll then be able to give you specific advice on how to continue with your case on your own thread.

    Thanks.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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