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  • FIRST POST
    • ralam
    • By ralam 16th Mar 17, 6:39 PM
    • 1Posts
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    ralam
    NHS Prescription Fraud
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 17, 6:39 PM
    NHS Prescription Fraud 16th Mar 17 at 6:39 PM
    I had a HC2 exemption form that meant I got free prescriptions. That expired over two years ago. Since then I have bought my medication from the local pharmacy.

    Recently the doctor electronically sent the a prescription to the pharmacy. Without my permission they delivered the prescription to my home. I didn't realize straight away and obviously this meant I didn't pay for it.

    Soon after I get a penalty charge notice saying that I did prescription fraud and I am asked to pay over £100.

    I called the NHS prescription department and they said they can't help me and that if I can get the pharmacy to admit liability then they can pay the charge for me. The pharmacy are not admitting liability.

    These are my main points of concern

    1. The pharmacy does not need to see continued record of exemption during the validity of the certificate.
    -Validity being the main point. The certificate expired over two years ago and so was not valid, and as such they would need to see proof of exemption right?

    2. Since July 2016, the pharmacy is required by its terms of use to inform me during every transaction that because they didn't see my certificate of exemption, NHS will routinely do fraud checks.
    - They didn't inform me of this.
    -Had they informed me of this I would have been able to remind them that I pay for my prescriptions and I am not exempt.

    3. They said it is my responsibility to inform them that I do not hold a HC2 exemption letter.
    - Wouldn't me paying for prescriptions after the HC2 expired imply that I am no longer exempt, especially since they need to check this when they fill out the prescription.

    I just want to know where I stand, because i honestly think the pharmacy are liable.
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 16th Mar 17, 6:50 PM
    • 4,560 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 6:50 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 6:50 PM
    I'm mostly ignoring the vast majority of your post.

    When the prescription arrived and you thought, by gosh I didnt pay my £8.xx for this, what did you do?

    Did you sit and do nothing, or did you call and say 'Hello Mr Pharmacy, I appreciate the delivery service however i pay for my scripts and can I please make arrangement to pay for this one.'

    If you did nothing, then youve got no one but yourself to blame.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 16th Mar 17, 7:02 PM
    • 1,256 Posts
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    Penitent
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:02 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:02 PM
    I agree with Marlie.

    You know you pay for your prescriptions. Why didn't you pay for this one?

    You said that if they'd called you to remind you about the fraud checks, you would have remembered to tell them you're not exempt, but why didn't the arrival of the prescription (which you hadn't paid for) have the same affect?
    Last edited by Penitent; 16-03-2017 at 7:08 PM.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 16th Mar 17, 7:13 PM
    • 575 Posts
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    Flugelhorn
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:13 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:13 PM
    there is a section on the back of the prescription where the dispenser signs to say they have not seen evidence of exemption. Did they sign this bit?

    In our dispensary we don't allow any free meds unless we have evidence - we keep photocopies of people's cards etc and check the dates
    • tensandunits
    • By tensandunits 16th Mar 17, 7:15 PM
    • 814 Posts
    • 1,219 Thanks
    tensandunits
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:15 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:15 PM
    I always try to avoid the pharmacy automated services. I just don't trust them to get it right, I'm afraid.

    OP unfortunately I think they've got you on this one. The chemist is morally in the wrong, as they filled out the exemption without you knowing, but it will count against you if you didn't question it and just took the free prescription.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 16th Mar 17, 7:24 PM
    • 1,256 Posts
    • 3,708 Thanks
    Penitent
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:24 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:24 PM
    I forgot to mention that I've actually been through this process with a dental charge. The dentist had forgotten to untick something from back when I was on income-based benefits, so they claimed for me when they shouldn't have. Because they could see that I'd paid (so obviously had not been trying to get something for free) they admitted their mistake and the fine was withdrawn.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 16th Mar 17, 7:34 PM
    • 5,529 Posts
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    Marktheshark
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:34 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:34 PM
    You WRITE, that is a letter not an E-mail or telephone call to the pharmacy and state clearly that due to their mis administration you have received a penalty charge .
    You give them 14 days to either reimburse you or contact the department to admit their mistake or you will issue county court proceedings for the loss caused by their negligence.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 16th Mar 17, 8:36 PM
    • 7,885 Posts
    • 4,697 Thanks
    teddysmum
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 8:36 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 8:36 PM
    I can't understand how you had a prescription delivered yet didn't know about it as a signature is required (two in my case as Tramadol is a controlled drug) or did a family member sign for it ?
    • Dullville
    • By Dullville 17th Mar 17, 12:15 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 91 Thanks
    Dullville
    • #9
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:15 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:15 AM
    You WRITE, that is a letter not an E-mail or telephone call to the pharmacy and state clearly that due to their mis administration you have received a penalty charge .
    You give them 14 days to either reimburse you or contact the department to admit their mistake or you will issue county court proceedings for the loss caused by their negligence.
    Originally posted by Marktheshark
    Absolute rubbish..the OP should of A. not accepted delivery of prescription B. or on receipt of said delivery when "remembered" they should be paying for there prescription should of immediately rang chemist and informed them of there mistake, at least the OP would then have a clear conscience.
    I for one think the OP thought they had a right result and some one had royally messed up and weren't going to say anything about the free prescription, unfortunately tho it hasn't...Shame.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 17th Mar 17, 12:47 AM
    • 4,560 Posts
    • 9,182 Thanks
    marliepanda
    I can't understand how you had a prescription delivered yet didn't know about it as a signature is required (two in my case as Tramadol is a controlled drug) or did a family member sign for it ?
    Originally posted by teddysmum
    Of course they knew they just mean that they had absolutely no idea they hadn't paid for it. It makes no sense either way. It didn't magically turn up in their house
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 17th Mar 17, 7:59 AM
    • 3,626 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    Of course they knew they just mean that they had absolutely no idea they hadn't paid for it. It makes no sense either way. It didn't magically turn up in their house
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    The only way 'not knowing' would make any sense is if the delivery was signed for by a family member who then put the medication with other existing meds. In that scenario the OP might not realise they had arrived.
    I wasn't aware that pharmacies delivered prescriptions to the home address unless they had been specifically requested to do so.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 17th Mar 17, 2:58 PM
    • 1,256 Posts
    • 3,708 Thanks
    Penitent
    The only way 'not knowing' would make any sense is if the delivery was signed for by a family member who then put the medication with other existing meds. In that scenario the OP might not realise they had arrived.
    I wasn't aware that pharmacies delivered prescriptions to the home address unless they had been specifically requested to do so.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    One of our local pharmacies does. Some of their smaller branches struggle with demand, so there's a sort of central depot that delivers straight to patients even if they don't need it. However, that pharmacy always sends out the scrip for someone to tick/sign if it's something that someone might be charged for (even though the person they're delivering for currently has a valid exemption). They sometimes don't bother bringing the scrip for my Pill delivery since it's free, but even then they get me to sign a delivery sheet (I suppose they don't want to be accused of handing out meds to random folk). It sounds like the OP's pharmacist does things differently.

    I agree that this situation is still strange, though. The OP requested a scrip from their GP, which was delivered, but they didn't know it was delivered, yet they didn't contact the GP or the pharmacy to chase it? And they didn't contact the pharmacy to make payment when they did find it? (Both of which would have identified a problem and averted this fine.)

    Even if they think the penalty is wrong, they still haven't paid for the meds. So either they've "stolen" from the NHS or they've "stolen" from the pharmacy. It doesn't look very good either way.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 18th Mar 17, 9:38 PM
    • 5,529 Posts
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    Marktheshark
    Absolute rubbish..the OP should of A. not accepted delivery of prescription
    Originally posted by Dullville
    Heaven forbid you ever fall upon this sword of judgment you swing on behalf of authority and find yourself in a position you need medications to survive life itself.

    To even suggest someone could turn away medication they need to make it from one day to the next and then to castigate them as a criminal when it is quite clear that the pharmacy have made a mistake here.

    One day if your time comes and you are in a position if illness and requiring medication to live you will understand that clerical errors by incompetent pharmacies come quite low on your list of priorities.

    Peace.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 18th Mar 17, 9:51 PM
    • 1,256 Posts
    • 3,708 Thanks
    Penitent
    How do you know the OP needed the medication to live? They didn't say that in their post. In fact, it supoosedly took them ?days/weeks (long enough for the fine to arrive) to even realise it was in their house (if we're going to be charitable and assume they didn't realise they were in possession of meds they hadn't paid for until the fine arrived).
    Last edited by Penitent; 18-03-2017 at 9:54 PM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 18th Mar 17, 9:56 PM
    • 3,626 Posts
    • 3,702 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    The situation stated by the OP is starting to make a little more sense, following my trip to my local pharmacy yesterday. They told me that 'the system is changing' and I would have to nominate a pharmacy for my prescription to be sent to electronically, rather than collecting the paper version from the surgery.
    If this has already been implemented where the OP lives, and prescriptions are then being delivered to the home address, the pharmacy should know that the OP no longer qualified for free prescriptions.
    I accept that the OP should have done more when the error was noticed, but the pharmacy should also accept a level of responsibility for delivering the prescription without either ensuring the OP did qualify, or requesting payment on delivery.
    If the OP has been paying for prescriptions for the past 2 years, it isn't their fault that the pharmacy got things wrong in the first place.
    • Londonsu
    • By Londonsu 18th Mar 17, 10:24 PM
    • 1,321 Posts
    • 2,838 Thanks
    Londonsu
    The situation stated by the OP is starting to make a little more sense, following my trip to my local pharmacy yesterday. They told me that 'the system is changing' and I would have to nominate a pharmacy for my prescription to be sent to electronically, rather than collecting the paper version from the surgery.
    If this has already been implemented where the OP lives, and prescriptions are then being delivered to the home address, the pharmacy should know that the OP no longer qualified for free prescriptions.
    I accept that the OP should have done more when the error was noticed, but the pharmacy should also accept a level of responsibility for delivering the prescription without either ensuring the OP did qualify, or requesting payment on delivery.
    If the OP has been paying for prescriptions for the past 2 years, it isn't their fault that the pharmacy got things wrong in the first place.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01

    Don't believe that its not true, Pharmacies want you to believe it, and they want you to chose THEM, because they get paid extra by the NHS

    This is how it works

    http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/pharmacists/Pages/eps.aspx

    And this bit tells you it may not be suitable for everyone and that you can go back to paper prescriptions
    http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/pharmacists/Documents/eps-patient-information-sheet.pdf

    My Local Boots tried that on with me the other day, I told them that's A its not convenient and I will be having paper prescriptions and B If I was mandated to chose the EPS service I would not choose them because they keep @@@@@@ up my husbands prescriptions and I am sick of them (in a loud voice)


    There is going to be a TRIAL where patients who don't nominate will be given a paper token with a barcode that will be scanned at any pharmacy, BUT the trial is not even going to start this year so it wont happen for a good while.


    ,
    Last edited by Londonsu; 18-03-2017 at 10:46 PM.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 18th Mar 17, 10:41 PM
    • 1,012 Posts
    • 875 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Don't believe that its not true, Pharmacies want you to believe it, and they want you to chose THEM, because they get paid extra by the NHS

    This is how it works

    http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/pharmacists/Pages/eps.aspx

    And this bit tells you it may not be suitable for everyone and that you can go back to paper prescriptions
    http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/pharmacists/Documents/eps-patient-information-sheet.pdf

    My Local Boots tried that on with me the other day, I told them that's A its not convenient and I will be having paper prescriptions and B If I was mandated to chose the EPS service I would not choose them because they keep @@@@@@ up my husbands prescriptions and I am sick of them (in a loud voice)
    Originally posted by Londonsu
    Tellit is right that the system is changing. In my GP surgery i can't collect a paper prescription because i have to nominate a pharmacy for it to go to. Once i nominate one i simply go there and collect my medication.
    • Londonsu
    • By Londonsu 18th Mar 17, 11:14 PM
    • 1,321 Posts
    • 2,838 Thanks
    Londonsu
    Tellit is right that the system is changing. In my GP surgery i can't collect a paper prescription because i have to nominate a pharmacy for it to go to. Once i nominate one i simply go there and collect my medication.
    Originally posted by poppy12345

    Did you not read the link, its not true you can still get paper prescriptions seriously its not true your GP cannot insist that you nominate anyone they really cant - I have checked and rechecked this, because my work can take me to anyone of three sites at a moments notice so I cant nominate one near my home or near my work because I| don't know where my work will be


    look at this
    https://digital.nhs.uk/Electronic-Prescription-Service/statistics-and-progress


    In the FUTURE it will be a default option its not now because there needs to be a trial for the paper tokens the trial will not start this year.


    This is the information that your GP surgery is given


    To use electronic prescriptions, patients choose where their prescriber will electronically send their prescriptions to. This is called nomination.
    Nominations can be set, changed or cancelled at any time.
    • patients must be fully informed about EPS before their nomination can be set on the system
    • nomination is suitable for most patients. Patients on regular repeats and who use the same pharmacy most of the time will see the most benefit
    • patients must opt-in. Changes can't be made to a patient's nomination unless they request it
    And this is also on the link


    As a minimum, the following information should be provided to the patient before setting their nomination on the system:


    nomination is not mandatory
    Last edited by Londonsu; 18-03-2017 at 11:22 PM.
    • Dullville
    • By Dullville 19th Mar 17, 7:42 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 91 Thanks
    Dullville
    Heaven forbid you ever fall upon this sword of judgment you swing on behalf of authority and find yourself in a position you need medications to survive life itself.

    To even suggest someone could turn away medication they need to make it from one day to the next and then to castigate them as a criminal when it is quite clear that the pharmacy have made a mistake here.

    One day if your time comes and you are in a position if illness and requiring medication to live you will understand that clerical errors by incompetent pharmacies come quite low on your list of priorities.

    Peace.
    Originally posted by Marktheshark
    Grow up.....
    • Pop Up Pirate
    • By Pop Up Pirate 19th Mar 17, 8:23 AM
    • 683 Posts
    • 1,816 Thanks
    Pop Up Pirate
    Heaven forbid you ever fall upon this sword of judgment you swing on behalf of authority and find yourself in a position you need medications to survive life itself.

    To even suggest someone could turn away medication they need to make it from one day to the next and then to castigate them as a criminal when it is quite clear that the pharmacy have made a mistake here.

    One day if your time comes and you are in a position if illness and requiring medication to live you will understand that clerical errors by incompetent pharmacies come quite low on your list of priorities.

    Peace.
    Originally posted by Marktheshark
    It isn't clear that the pharmacy made a mistake. We only have the OP's account of what happened.
    The ONLY thing that is clear, is that the OP did not pay for his prescription. He could have taken delivery of the drugs and phoned the pharmacy to pay asap, but did not.

    The only person to blame is the OP.
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