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  • FIRST POST
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 8th Jan 17, 8:10 PM
    • 3,085Posts
    • 5,708Thanks
    SnowMan
    Coolly Comparing Investment Platform charges - SnowMan's spreadsheet
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 17, 8:10 PM
    Coolly Comparing Investment Platform charges - SnowMan's spreadsheet 8th Jan 17 at 8:10 PM
    It isn't any longer possible to edit the post linking to my investment platform comparison spreadsheet, so I thought I'd set up a new thread.

    The thread is set up to provide a link to a spreadsheet enabling annual platform charges to be calculated and compared between platforms. This includes both custody charges for holding funds and/or shares/ETFs, and for dealing costs based on the number of annual sales and purchases of funds or shares/ETFs.

    The spreadsheet (version 28 currently) can be downloaded by going to this link and downloading the file.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxA6Przq6KI1YXlQX3ZBTnlTOVU/view?usp=sharing

    The basic idea is that platform charges and fund manager charges are now separated. So the starting point in looking at costs, in choosing an investment platform, is to compare platform costs for your own particular mix of ISAs, dealing account and SIPPs and based on your mix of funds and shares/ETFs.

    The principle is that fund manager costs can be ignored as they cancel out, that is they are the same for each platform. This ignores any 'super clean' funds offered by some platforms, certain 'dirty' funds which have higher charges, and ignores the lack of availability of some funds or ETFs on some platforms.

    The answers are shown as £ figures and percentages (so you can use the latter to add in your average percentage fund manager cost to estimate your total cost).

    Most of the other comparisons I have seen only compare ISA only or SIPP only or dealing account only portfolios. This does not allow for the considerable discounts on SOME platforms for holding ISAs and SIPPs and dealing accounts on the same platform.

    That is why the spreadsheet allows you to add in all the different accounts so these discounts can be considered.

    It is also a good idea to look at options of keeping funds and shares separately. This is why the spreadsheet works out an everything together cost, a shares and ETFs only cost (based on the shares and ETF element only) and a funds only cost (based on the funds element only)

    There is also a column that calculates exit charges by way of re-registration. High exit cost platforms should other things being equal be avoided, because it will be difficult to switch to other platforms following a price increase, without significant cost.

    Some of these platforms (in particular AJ Bell Youinvest) have form for putting up charges without allowing customers the temporary option of a free exit through re-registration (past OFT guidance seems to suggest they can't do this but not everyone will want to take a case through the county courts, and the legal position remains unclear). The Financial Ombudsman Service, in my view, are causing significant customer detriment by not properly assessing fairness in relation to applying unfair terms legislation, and this is compounded by the inaction of the Financial Conduct Authority to deal with this issue.

    The spreadsheet is a continual work in progress but it is just about getting there. Because of the incredible complexity of charging structures and the complicated interactions between accounts there are bound to be a few errors in there.

    I will update the spreadsheet and link when a new version of the spreadsheet is produced.
    Last edited by SnowMan; 20-04-2017 at 2:57 PM.
    I came, I saw, I melted
Page 1
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 8th Jan 17, 8:10 PM
    • 3,085 Posts
    • 5,708 Thanks
    SnowMan
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 17, 8:10 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 17, 8:10 PM
    Some other DIY investment platform comparison tools that are available are:-

    The Monevator broker comparison table provides a detailed summary of platform charges.

    The excellent Justin Modray's Compare Fund Platforms website and tool.

    The langcat consultancy have a downloadable direct platform guide (which importantly includes cat pictures) and produce regular heat mapped comparisons of investment platforms in their blog (this is the latest version I can find) and these comparisons are used in some newspaper articles.
    Last edited by SnowMan; 08-01-2017 at 8:33 PM.
    I came, I saw, I melted
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 8th Jan 17, 9:45 PM
    • 672 Posts
    • 497 Thanks
    LHW99
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 17, 9:45 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 17, 9:45 PM
    Thanks Snowman, I'm sure many will find this useful, as will I
    • darkidoe
    • By darkidoe 8th Jan 17, 10:27 PM
    • 767 Posts
    • 855 Thanks
    darkidoe
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 17, 10:27 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 17, 10:27 PM
    Excellent tool! Just what we need! Thanks!

    Save 12K in 2017 # 9 £1360.10./15 000 (9%)
    Save 12K in 2016 # 8 £19 721.58/12 000 (164.35%) Achieved!
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 8th Jan 17, 10:53 PM
    • 8,754 Posts
    • 5,543 Thanks
    bigadaj
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 17, 10:53 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 17, 10:53 PM
    'Fund manager costs cancel out' what about HL's special deals......
    • chockydavid1983
    • By chockydavid1983 9th Jan 17, 9:59 AM
    • 355 Posts
    • 202 Thanks
    chockydavid1983
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 17, 9:59 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 17, 9:59 AM
    Nice one SnowMan
    • jdw2000
    • By jdw2000 9th Jan 17, 10:34 AM
    • 415 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    jdw2000
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 17, 10:34 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 17, 10:34 AM
    Thank you, Snowman. That is a fantastic contribution.
    • jdw2000
    • By jdw2000 9th Jan 17, 10:43 AM
    • 415 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    jdw2000
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 17, 10:43 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 17, 10:43 AM
    Next to Halifax it should probably say the same as it says next to iWeb: "£60 charge for transferring into SIPP not included in figures". That applies to both of them.
    Last edited by jdw2000; 09-01-2017 at 11:59 AM.
    • talexuser
    • By talexuser 9th Jan 17, 11:36 AM
    • 2,166 Posts
    • 1,643 Thanks
    talexuser
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 17, 11:36 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 17, 11:36 AM
    Great resource Snowman.
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 9th Jan 17, 9:45 PM
    • 3,085 Posts
    • 5,708 Thanks
    SnowMan
    Next to Halifax it should probably say the same as it says next to iWeb: "£60 charge for transferring into SIPP not included in figures". That applies to both of them.
    Originally posted by jdw2000
    Thanks good point.

    I did have a warning about the Halifax £60 SIPP transfer in charge in the funds and shares and ETFs combined comparison, but you are right there was no warning in the shares and ETFs only comparison or the funds only comparison, so I've added those warnings in.

    I've noticed that Barclays are about to do a complete overhaul of charges, so I've added a warning that the charges allowed for are based on their old structure also.

    There are no changes to the formulae so I've left the version as version 27.
    I came, I saw, I melted
    • Sean473
    • By Sean473 28th Feb 17, 4:13 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Sean473
    Hi Snow,

    You might want to add the Santander Investment Hub, it's a funds platform.

    Thanks,
    Sean
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 28th Feb 17, 10:42 PM
    • 2,966 Posts
    • 1,572 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    Hi Snowie.... Just looking at X-O.

    Am I correct in thinking this is X-O from Jarvis?

    If so, are you sure the annual platform charge is correct (I know you've got a comment against it)? From their website the charge is £99+VAT. You've got it listed as £144.

    It is also worth noting that X-O will refund the £99+VAT as long as you have a X-O Share Dealing account.

    EDIT: Brilliant sheet by the way

    EDIT: EDIT: I wasn't specific on the above... It relates to their SIPP
    Last edited by cloud_dog; 01-03-2017 at 11:29 AM.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • Ray Singh-Blue
    • By Ray Singh-Blue 28th Feb 17, 11:04 PM
    • 287 Posts
    • 367 Thanks
    Ray Singh-Blue
    What a useful sheet - thanks
    • patricia1066
    • By patricia1066 3rd Mar 17, 10:58 AM
    • 253 Posts
    • 73 Thanks
    patricia1066
    Great resource, thanks. Just what I am looking for
    • patricia1066
    • By patricia1066 10th Mar 17, 12:30 PM
    • 253 Posts
    • 73 Thanks
    patricia1066
    Hi Snowman, I was looking at Fidelity for ETF within a SIPP. The spreadsheet shows a cap of £36 pa, but in a SIPP the cap is £45 pa. The Junior SIPP and ISA cap is £25 pa.

    Thanks for your amazing work on this.
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 12th Mar 17, 2:28 PM
    • 3,085 Posts
    • 5,708 Thanks
    SnowMan
    Hi Snowie.... Just looking at X-O.

    Am I correct in thinking this is X-O from Jarvis?

    If so, are you sure the annual platform charge is correct (I know you've got a comment against it)? From their website the charge is £99+VAT. You've got it listed as £144.

    It is also worth noting that X-O will refund the £99+VAT as long as you have a X-O Share Dealing account.

    EDIT: Brilliant sheet by the way

    EDIT: EDIT: I wasn't specific on the above... It relates to their SIPP
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    Thanks.

    Their original SIPP charge was £95 + VAT (£114pa).

    They increased this to £144pa (£120 + VAT) in April 2015 (and added charges for flexible access options also although these aren't covered in the spreadsheet) see this thread

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5192079&highlight=jarvis+sipp

    That is the fee schedule my spreadsheet works on.

    However their latest fee schedule is at the link below, and it says that it applies from April 2016, so I'm guessing that is when they changed fees to the level you quote

    http://www.x-o.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/JARV3168%20X-O%20SIPP%20Fee%20Schedule%20AW.pdf

    Does anyone know what the following means in relation to waiving the annual fee?
    Jarvis will refund these fees until such time as the
    X-O share dealing account linked to your SIPP is closed
    Is having the x-o dealing account part of having the SIPP, or is this a requirement to have a separate dealing account to invest in outside of a SIPP.

    There is also a £60 transfer in charge which gain they say they will waive.

    This all looks very odd (and too good to be true) can anyone say what is going on here?
    Last edited by SnowMan; 12-03-2017 at 3:05 PM.
    I came, I saw, I melted
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 12th Mar 17, 2:32 PM
    • 3,085 Posts
    • 5,708 Thanks
    SnowMan
    Hi Snowman, I was looking at Fidelity for ETF within a SIPP. The spreadsheet shows a cap of £36 pa, but in a SIPP the cap is £45 pa. The Junior SIPP and ISA cap is £25 pa.

    Thanks for your amazing work on this.
    Originally posted by patricia1066
    Thanks

    It looks to me like they've tweeked their ETF charges and as you say the SIPP ETF cap charge is £45. The following seems to be their clearest documentation of the charge

    https://www.fidelity.co.uk/investor/funds/fund-charge.page

    I've updated the spreadsheet (and have updated for the recent Cavendish reduction in SIPP charges) and will upload this once I've understood the x-o changes and can incorporate those also.
    Last edited by SnowMan; 12-03-2017 at 2:37 PM.
    I came, I saw, I melted
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 13th Mar 17, 9:53 AM
    • 2,966 Posts
    • 1,572 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    Does anyone know what the following means in relation to waiving the annual fee? Is having the x-o dealing account part of having the SIPP, or is this a requirement to have a separate dealing account to invest in outside of a SIPP.
    Originally posted by SnowMan
    From my reading (I am interested in opening a SIPP), a dealing account is not mandatory but, they will refund the AMC after taking it, if you have an X-O dealing account.

    The annoying thing, reading your comments, is that they seem to change their T&Cs quite frequently.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • SimonBlake
    • By SimonBlake 13th Mar 17, 9:43 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    SimonBlake
    Awesome stuff - keep up the good work.
    • patricia1066
    • By patricia1066 18th Apr 17, 5:24 PM
    • 253 Posts
    • 73 Thanks
    patricia1066
    Hi Snowman, i have set up my Fidelity SIPP many thanks for the assistance of your spreadsheet. I am looking at Standard Life now for DH.
    Option 3 Off Platform fixed fee looks good. Any way you could get this added to the spreadsheet?
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