Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • janerodger
    • By janerodger 10th Oct 16, 5:36 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 4Thanks
    janerodger
    Help please on a response to solicitors
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:36 PM
    Help please on a response to solicitors 10th Oct 16 at 5:36 PM
    My Letter - To: Wright Hassall Debt recovery operations following guidance from the forum

    Ref. No. 1313176

    For the personal attention of Tim Hawker

    Total parking solutions v Jane Rodger
    Proposed Legal Proceedings

    Thank you for your letters of 31/08/16 and 15/09/16.

    First, the alleged debt is disputed as I knew nothing about it until your letters arrived and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

    Secondly, despite the wholly inaccurate statement that the letter is 'fully compliant with the Practice Direction' it is in fact woefully defective and appears to be a deliberate attempt to mislead the recipient.

    Please therefore provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct.

    I confirm that I shall then seek advice and submit a formal Response within 30 days of receipt, as required by the Practice Direction.

    Please ensure that you read and respond to this letter, providing the specific information relating to the county court claim that your client intends to make against myself as the defendant to the proposed legal proceedings. Please DO NOT send a generic FAQ letter in reply as to do so does not meet the requirements of the Practice Direction and will take this matter no further forward.

    Please note, a refusal to comply with the Practice Direction will result in an immediate referral to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for breach of the Principles contained in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

    I trust this will not be necessary, and look forward to receiving a fully compliant letter before claim in due course or a letter to say this claim has now been dropped.

    Yours faithfully

    Jane Rodger

    Wright Hassalls response -
    Car Parking Operator: TOTAL PARKING SOLUTIONS
    Instructed by: Total Parking Solutions Ltd
    Balance outstanding: £ 100.00

    With reference to your recent correspondence, the contents of which have been duly noted.

    First of all, please note we are required to comply specifically with Annex B of the Pre Action Protocol and we do so fully. In proceedings we comply with the spirit of Annex A and we conduct litigation in accordance with the overriding objective. The Letter Before Claim makes clear the action that will be taken should non-payment continue and the consequences of such action. We are confident that our pre action correspondence meets all requirements for information to be provided to the recipient and will therefore not re-issue.

    Secondly, please refer to copies of initial Parking Charge Notice (PCN), reminder and final reminder notices that were all sent to your address on 08 June, 23 June and 25 July 2016 respectively. These notices have been sent to the same address to which you received further correspondence from us. Unfortunately, as no payment or response has been received within the required timeframe stated in the notices, our clients had to pass this matter for recovery activities.

    It does appear that an increasing number of motorists receive misguided and often misleading advice from online forums who claim parking charges are ‘unfair’ and ‘illegal’. Should you chose to rely on this advice or use template letters sourced from the internet we will not respond further and you can consider this letter our final response on the matter. Further should you choose to rely on a template defence at court we will seek an immediate strike out.

    We can, therefore, confirm this PCN stands and in order to close the matter in settlement of your liability, the outstanding balance of £100.00 needs to be paid in full. We will place a 14-day hold on this matter to allow you time to make payment in full. Should payment in full not be received, the hold will be removed and this account may proceed to litigation stage with a view to issuing a claim and obtaining judgment.

    Please see below our payment methods we have enclosed for your convenience.

    Debit Card/ Direct Debit: Call 01926 758101
    Online: Please visit our website

    Please quote our reference number with all payments.

    Yours sincerely

    Tim Hawker
    Head of Debt Recovery Operations
    I am not sure how to respond next, please can you offer some advice.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Oct 16, 6:10 PM
    • 40,600 Posts
    • 52,481 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 16, 6:10 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 16, 6:10 PM
    Dear Sirs,

    Re: PCN Ref xxxxxxxxxx - Total Parking Solutions

    I refer to the recent letter sent by Tim Hawker, which appears (due to his job title) to merely be a debt collector reply but also mentions court and fails to disclose any key documents relevant to the issues in this dispute.

    You refer to alleged 'TPS' letters dated June and July but these were never served. Kindly show me any proof of posting and in the absence of such proof, please at least provide me with the alleged letters so I can compare them to the wording of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012. It is my belief that your client does not use all of the mandatory wording in Schedule 4 in their template NTK but of course, I have never seen this alleged notice. I need to form a considered opinion on whether they are able to potentially hold me liable as keeper for a parking event I know nothing about.

    You are respectfully requested to furnish me with copies of all TPS' letters within 14 days. I also require a copy of the contract (i.e. photographs of the signage on site dated at the time of the alleged parking event).

    Kindly do not insult my intelligence with a glib comment on whether YOU think TPS complied with the statutory wording and/or created a contract from 'adequate notice' of the parking charge on site. Not only are your interests very obviously swayed by your client's view, but I am well aware that Wright Hassall has demonstrated that you have very little knowledge about POFA compliance nor prominent/clear signage, as proved by your woeful decisions when 'acting as if you were POPLA'. A sorry state of affairs and conflict of interests, casting a shadow over POPLA's supposed independence and followed (coincidentally?) by the resignation of the ISPA Chairperson and Deputy. Your firm's notoriety relating to your dealings with the private parking 'industry' does not fill me with confidence that Wright Hassall will do anything more than pay lip service to pre-action protocol, should this matter proceed further.

    I remind you that, as no NTK was served (you will be unable to evidence that it was delivered, because it was not) your client has in fact failed to invoke 'keeper liability'. If you should proceed, my witness statement will include the truthful statement that no previous letters arrived regarding this matter. I have no idea what it is about and cannot be held liable even if you send me a NTK copy now. It is too late.

    It does appear that an increasing number of motorists are being sent misleading information by solicitors acting for private parking firms, so I am pleased to confirm I will continue to consult online forums and your threats and misinformation will be used as evidence of your unreasonableness and failure to comply with the very basics of the Overriding Objective. I will also have no hesitation in reporting your firm to the SRA, should you attempt to mislead me further or try to dissuade me from my right to seek advice where I see fit.

    I am unimpressed by your threat that, should I choose to rely on a template defence at court ''we will seek an immediate strike out''. Good luck with that - as a firm of solicitors you are well aware that your first duty is to the court and there is nothing wrong with a consumer seeking assistance to write responses to baseless template allegations from a company with whom I have no contract. A consumer can seek advice wherever they wish and it is the likes of parking firms and their solicitors who deal mainly in template letters. I reserve the right to seek a strike out myself, if you proceed vexatiously with a template claim without due diligence nor any particulars that could possibly give rise to a claim, knowing that I cannot be held liable.

    I remind you that there is no presumption in law relating to private land parking, that a keeper was the driver, unless your client has evidence of that person. If they do have evidence of who was driving, I require that evidence to be furnished along with copies of their letters and pictures of the signs on site which they allege were capable of creating a contract with a driver.

    If I do not receive the evidence upon which TPS intend to rely, within 14 days, I will quite reasonably consider the matter closed.

    yours faithfully,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 10-10-2016 at 6:25 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MoneyMate
    • By MoneyMate 10th Oct 16, 6:13 PM
    • 2,687 Posts
    • 12,517 Thanks
    MoneyMate
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 16, 6:13 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 16, 6:13 PM
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/site/resolver

    Hope this helps
    There are more questions than answers
    WARNING ! May go silent for unfriendly replies
    Please excuse me Spell it MOST times
    UK Resident
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Oct 16, 7:28 PM
    • 4,150 Posts
    • 4,773 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 16, 7:28 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 16, 7:28 PM
    "It does appear that an increasing number of motorists receive misguided and often misleading advice from online forums who claim parking charges are ‘unfair’ and ‘illegal’. Should you chose to rely on this advice or use template letters sourced from the internet we will not respond further and you can consider this letter our final response on the matter. Further should you choose to rely on a template defence at court we will seek an immediate strike out. "

    Wright Hassall behaving badly again

    I thought in their pretend mode as WHOPLA, that most of their rejection letters are copy and paste anyway ?

    What a very misleading statement ? A prime case for a complaint to the SRA
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • hoohoo
    • By hoohoo 10th Oct 16, 9:08 PM
    • 1,582 Posts
    • 2,847 Thanks
    hoohoo
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 16, 9:08 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 16, 9:08 PM
    First of all, please note we are required to comply specifically with Annex B of the Pre Action Protocol and we do so fully. In proceedings we comply with the spirit of Annex A and we conduct litigation in accordance with the overriding objective. The Letter Before Claim makes clear the action that will be taken should non-payment continue and the consequences of such action. We are confident that our pre action correspondence meets all requirements for information to be provided to the recipient and will therefore not re-issue.

    LOL. Those practice directions expired on Tuesday, 28 July 2015. The current ones are here.
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct

    Nice to know that they are over a year behind the curve. I would file a complaint with the SRA .
    Dedicated to driving up standards in parking
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 10th Oct 16, 9:11 PM
    • 5,446 Posts
    • 4,965 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 16, 9:11 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 16, 9:11 PM
    but , who penned the letter before getting Mr Hawker to sign it
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Oct 16, 9:57 PM
    • 11,030 Posts
    • 16,468 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 9:57 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 9:57 PM
    but , who penned the letter before getting Mr Hawker to sign it
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Really? Was it you PG?.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Oct 16, 10:02 PM
    • 40,600 Posts
    • 52,481 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 16, 10:02 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 16, 10:02 PM
    First of all, please note we are required to comply specifically with Annex B of the Pre Action Protocol and we do so fully. In proceedings we comply with the spirit of Annex A and we conduct litigation in accordance with the overriding objective. The Letter Before Claim makes clear the action that will be taken should non-payment continue and the consequences of such action. We are confident that our pre action correspondence meets all requirements for information to be provided to the recipient and will therefore not re-issue.

    LOL. Those practice directions expired on Tuesday, 28 July 2015. The current ones are here.
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct

    Nice to know that they are over a year behind the curve. I would file a complaint with the SRA .
    Originally posted by hoohoo
    Good point, hoohoo.

    After you posted this I toyed with adding it to the suggested response for the OP, but I decided not to tip them off about the old Practice Direction and to report the entire misleading letter to the SRA. So much to report them for there.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • HO87
    • By HO87 10th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
    • 4,126 Posts
    • 7,314 Thanks
    HO87
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
    but , who penned the letter before getting Mr Hawker to sign it
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    If Mr Hawker's signature is on it, its his letter. Best be careful because he isn't a solicitor so somewhere in the background must be a supervising solicitor who, its seems, isn't keeping on top of his staff training.

    It also seems that Mr Hawker's detailed understanding of the Pre-Action Protocols (the current version or the one introduced in 2010 (Annexe A) is lacking because they encourage (and always have encouraged) an exchange of information - that means a two-way process - not just an arrogant statement of intent.

    And as BG has said it illbehoves a debt collector whose entire business model is predicated on the use of template processes and letters to complain about someone else doing the same. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

    And their grounds for applying for an immediate strike-out would be what? Or is that just another bloody-minded, foot-stamping comment because the OP had the temerity to question the alleged debt? Of course it was.
    My very sincere apologies for those hoping to request off-board assistance but I am now so inundated with requests that in order to do justice to those "already in the system" I am no longer accepting PM's and am unlikely to do so for the foreseeable future (August 2016).

    For those seeking more detailed advice and guidance regarding small claims cases arising from private parking issues I recommend that you visit the Private Parking forum on PePiPoo.com
    • janerodger
    • By janerodger 1st Nov 16, 11:06 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    janerodger
    Thanks for your help.
    I used coupon-mad's letter and here is their response...

    Our Reference: 1313176
    Client Reference: AT3212014
    Car Parking Operator: TOTAL PARKING SOLUTIONS
    Instructed by: Total Parking Solutions Ltd
    Outstanding Balance: £ 100.00

    We write in reference to your recent correspondence, the contents of which have been duly noted.

    In light of the comments you have made, we have referred this matter to our client, and will return to you in due course, the above account has been placed on hold during this time.

    Yours sincerely,


    Tim Hawker
    Head of Debt Recovery Operations
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,690Posts Today

6,415Users online

Martin's Twitter