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    • bbhangale
    • By bbhangale 9th Oct 16, 6:26 PM
    • 5Posts
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    bbhangale
    UKPC parking charge for Parked displaying a non valid permit
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 16, 6:26 PM
    UKPC parking charge for Parked displaying a non valid permit 9th Oct 16 at 6:26 PM
    A week ago on my car windscreen found a UKPC parking charge for "Parked displaying a non valid permit". I parked in a bay allocated to another flat tenant in my building and was displaying my parking bay permit.

    I have my own bay with a permit in the same building. I parked in the tenant's bay as the tenant was vacating the flat and requested me to provide my parking space for few hours as my parking is inside the building and next to the elevator.

    We did not think of exchanging the permit as the parking bays are allocated and it did not occur to us that the permit is specific to bay and parking notice will be given.

    I have appealed siting the reason above and awaiting reply.

    I found mention of ignoring UK PC notices on the forums so wanted to check. If the appeal is rejected should I pay the fine?
Page 1
    • Autolycus2000
    • By Autolycus2000 9th Oct 16, 6:36 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Autolycus2000
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 16, 6:36 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 16, 6:36 PM
    So you wanted to check whether to ignore the notice or not, but in the meantime you submitted an appeal - which kind of commits you to the not ignoring option. ;-)

    As luck would have it, that's not a problem as the advice here would have been to not ignore it anyway. But from now on I'd suggest that if you want to check something you hold off taking action until you've got the answer.

    Did you appeal as the Keeper or as the Driver? Hopefully it was the former and you did not say who the driver was.

    If the appeal is rejected you should not pay the charge. What you should do now is is search on here and on pepipoo.com for POPLA appeals relating similar cases to yours.

    Then, if/when your appeal to UKPC is rejected you should and draft your own appeal to POPLA. Before you submit that appeal post it here for comments and advice.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 9th Oct 16, 8:29 PM
    • 36,474 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 16, 8:29 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 16, 8:29 PM
    It is not a fine. It is a speculative invoice from a scammer. UKPC were caught doctoring time stamps on photo' evidence last year.

    As you received a windscreen ticket, you appealed too soon, and possibly gave away the driver's details.

    What does your lease say about parking? Does it mention permits? If not, why are you displaying one?

    Have you asked your landlord to cancel this? The parking company is supposed to be there to stop unauthorised parking, not penalise residents.

    Please read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES on what to do next, and also advice on how to deal with any future private parking tickets.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • bbhangale
    • By bbhangale 28th Oct 16, 10:47 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    bbhangale
    • #4
    • 28th Oct 16, 10:47 AM
    Appeal rejected
    • #4
    • 28th Oct 16, 10:47 AM
    Thanks for your information. As you said they did not accept my appeal and sent me this letter. Please suggest what I can do now?

    Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above Parking Charge.
    We have investigated your appeal based on the information you have submitted and confirm that this Parking
    Charge was correctly issued because there are sufficient signs at The Junction (Overflow Car Park) warning drivers
    that should they park their vehicle without displaying a valid permit this will result in a Parking Charge being issued
    to the vehicle.
    Our Appeals process is now concluded, you may now pick one of the following options:
    1. Pay the parking charge detailed above at the reduced rate of £60 to UK Parking Control Ltd. PLEASE REFER
    OVERLEAF FOR PAYMENT OPTIONS AND ADDRESS DETAILS.
    2. Make an appeal to POPLA – Submit an appeal online at within 28 days of the date of this letter
    using the verification code above. “Alternatively if you do not have internet access, you can send a letter to POPLA,
    PO Box 1270, Warrington, WA4 9RL within 28 days of the date of this letter using the verification code above.” Please
    note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £60, and
    should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £100. If you opt to pay
    the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.
    By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides
    an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not
    chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you
    must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
    3. If you choose to do nothing the parking charge will automatically increase after 35 days from the date of this
    letter to £100 and the matter will be passed to our debt recovery agent, at which point you will be liable to pay an
    additional charge of £60, in accordance with our terms and conditions of parking, and further charges will be
    claimed if Court action is taken against you. Any unpaid Court Judgement may adversely affect your credit rating.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 28th Oct 16, 11:32 AM
    • 36,474 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 28th Oct 16, 11:32 AM
    • #5
    • 28th Oct 16, 11:32 AM
    You still haven't told us if you appealed as driver (hopefully not) or as keeper.
    You haven't told us what your lease says about parking/parking permits.
    You haven't told us what happened when you asked your landlord to cancel this.
    What do the signs say about permits, specifically what constitutes a valid permit? In other words, does the sign say that the permit (that you may not need to display if it is not a requirement of your lease) specify that the permit number must match the parking bay number?

    You have already been advised what to do next which is, not pay and appeal to PoPLA.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 28-10-2016 at 11:39 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • bbhangale
    • By bbhangale 28th Oct 16, 2:41 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    bbhangale
    • #6
    • 28th Oct 16, 2:41 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Oct 16, 2:41 PM
    I appealed as Driver
    Nothing about parking permit in my tenancy lease
    Did not speak to landlord as I parked the car in that bay
    The sign say a valid permit must be displayed but nothing a permit specific to the bay must be displayed. My permit is valid as I have my own parking.

    I will appeal to PoPLA.

    Thanks for your support.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 28th Oct 16, 3:05 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #7
    • 28th Oct 16, 3:05 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Oct 16, 3:05 PM
    Where is the loss? How can a mutually agreed arrangement between residents amount to a breach of contract? How is this not an infringement of the "quiet enjoyment" to which leaseholders and tenants are entitled?


    If it was me I would tell them to MTOBB and complain like stink to the MA. I can just imagine what a judge would say if they were daft enough to take this to court.


    Why do you use a permit anyway? Is it a condition of your lease/AST? Read how one disgruntled resident dealt with them.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 28th Oct 16, 3:23 PM
    • 36,474 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #8
    • 28th Oct 16, 3:23 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Oct 16, 3:23 PM
    I appealed as Driver
    Nothing about parking permit in my tenancy lease
    Did not speak to landlord as I parked the car in that bay
    The sign say a valid permit must be displayed but nothing a permit specific to the bay must be displayed. My permit is valid as I have my own parking.

    I will appeal to PoPLA.

    Thanks for your support.
    Originally posted by bbhangale
    It's a shame you appealed as driver as that means you have given away a valuably appeal point. That can't be helped and all is not lost.

    Since there is nothing in your lease about a permit, that cannot be added in as an afterthought by a third party such as a parking company. Your contract with your landlord trumps any made up terms the parking company say you have. The sign therefore is irrelevant in what it says.

    You really need to speak to your landlord about this. It is the easiest way to make this go away.

    Read the most recent successful appeals in the POPLA Decisions sticky thread and pick out all the bits that apply. Post your draft here before you send it.
    You should have at least, not the landowner, no standing to issue charges in their own name, and inadequate signage.
    Pictures of the signs will help us here.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • bbhangale
    • By bbhangale 2nd Nov 16, 9:22 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    bbhangale
    • #9
    • 2nd Nov 16, 9:22 AM
    Parking signage and POPLA appeal
    • #9
    • 2nd Nov 16, 9:22 AM
    I am not allowed to post with full link, use https for the below urls -

    Parking signage - drive.google.com/open?id=0BzKggg77jLxtdmlKTWpxU0RoUEU

    POPLA appeal I have filled. Please let me know if changes required or I can submit.
    drive.google.com/open?id=0BzKggg77jLxtZHVmaW1RR1hMU3M
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 2nd Nov 16, 9:48 AM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    Whether you appealed as driver of RK is immaterial in this instance. You do not need the protection of POFA, the various Housing Acts give you all the weaponry you need.

    Unless your lease/AST specifically states to the contrary, no PPC permit is required. They are possibly committing an offence under The Landlord and Tenant Acts in harassing you. The purpose of appointing PPCs is to keep outsiders out, not to harass residents.

    Read these

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com.es/2016/11/tenancy-agreement-not-overruled-by.html

    http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066

    If they were to take this to court they may be opening themselves to a claim for substantial damages.
    Last edited by The Deep; 02-11-2016 at 9:53 AM.
    • Honeybea7
    • By Honeybea7 2nd Nov 16, 2:04 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Honeybea7
    Hi guys wondering if anyone can help me ....I have a UKPC notice come through my door suggesting court action for a ticket on my vehicle for parking in a disabled bay in a retail park. How should I I appeal this. I wasn't driving the car at the time. I have no ticket but the picture shows it plastered on my windscreen. The parking charge notice was for 21/07/2016. The letter I received is also a few weeks old now so it may be court action has already been sought but I have no confirmation of this yet?
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 2nd Nov 16, 4:41 PM
    • 3,100 Posts
    • 4,391 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    Hi guys wondering if anyone can help me ...
    Originally posted by Honeybea7
    Please start your own thread. Do not hijack someone else's. That way, each case can be kept separate. The alternative is confusion all round.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Nov 16, 6:49 PM
    • 40,573 Posts
    • 52,464 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I am not allowed to post with full link, use https for the below urls -

    Parking signage - drive.google.com/open?id=0BzKggg77jLxtdmlKTWpxU0RoUEU

    POPLA appeal I have filled. Please let me know if changes required or I can submit.
    drive.google.com/open?id=0BzKggg77jLxtZHVmaW1RR1hMU3M
    Originally posted by bbhangale
    Nonono, do not submit that to POPLA! STOP, take your time and try to get this stage right. You are about to lose - wow - I've no idea why you came to this forum if you are not going to read the advice first. Please let us help you at least attempt a decent POPLA appeal on legal points, not mitigation.

    We want to help you but you appear to have been here a month and not even read the POPLA info in post #3 of 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST'. Nor have you read anything on the POPLA website which clearly TELLS you that you can't win on mitigating circumstances - so very obviously, come on wise up, do not argue mitigating circumstances/excuses!

    If you have filed that then you had better learn how to properly argue a court defence because you can't win with that unless POPLA goes slightly mad. We help with court claim defences too, but it's only worthwhile for people prepared to put in a shift and burn the midnight oil to climb the steep learning curve to give themselves a fighting chance.

    I HOPE you didn't submit that to POPLA already, surely you stopped and read something first...you have 28 days to read about how to make a POPLA appeal stronger. You can't add stuff once submitted.

    Please tell us you didn't.

    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 02-11-2016 at 6:54 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • bbhangale
    • By bbhangale 3rd Nov 16, 10:38 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    bbhangale
    Thanks for your help.

    I have not submitted the appeal. I just filed and provided details here. I did read some on POPLA and this is what the truth is. I am not filing to save the fine but because I felt it is not correct for them to charge me. If I can't win on truth then so be it.

    If there is anything specific please let me know.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 3rd Nov 16, 2:14 PM
    • 36,474 Posts
    • 73,313 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks for your help.

    I have not submitted the appeal. I just filed and provided details here. I did read some on POPLA and this is what the truth is. I am not filing to save the fine but because I felt it is not correct for them to charge me. If I can't win on truth then so be it.

    If there is anything specific please let me know.
    Originally posted by bbhangale
    It is still not a fine.

    You can win on the truth, the truth being legal arguments. If you base your PoPLA appeal on swapping parking spaces, you will lose.

    There are a number of template appeal points starting around post 2341 give or take a few pages of the POPLA decisions thread. Each post is one appeal point so they are already written out for you. You have already been told what appeal points to use.

    Have you asked your landlord to cancel this yet? You can tell him the truth about what happened about you swapping parking spaces to assist a tenant who was leaving.

    You must appeal this to PoPLA as advised or you will end up in court. Spending a bit of time doing a PoPLA appeal now is going to be much easier that defending a court case.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Nov 16, 10:06 PM
    • 40,573 Posts
    • 52,464 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thanks for your help.

    I have not submitted the appeal. I just filed and provided details here. I did read some on POPLA and this is what the truth is. I am not filing to save the fine but because I felt it is not correct for them to charge me. If I can't win on truth then so be it.

    If there is anything specific please let me know.
    Originally posted by bbhangale
    What? We are not telling anyone to lie. You do not win a POPLA appeal on mitigation because they cannot consider it.

    Winning on arguments such as the signage was duff and the PCN was not properly issued, are just as good and just as true.

    There are plenty of appeal points you can use and the templates are linked in the NEWBIES thread post #3, telling you what each one is about. There are no lies, no loopholes, these are genuine, winning appeal points that work. You can still win 'on truth' but OUR truth!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 4th Nov 16, 6:32 AM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    Hot of the press


    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com.es/2016/11/link-parking-lose-in-wrexham-flat-owner_2.html
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