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  • FIRST POST
    • General Grant
    • By General Grant 5th Oct 16, 9:16 PM
    • 528Posts
    • 545Thanks
    General Grant
    Vent: Royal Mail "returned to sender"
    • #1
    • 5th Oct 16, 9:16 PM
    Vent: Royal Mail "returned to sender" 5th Oct 16 at 9:16 PM
    I have today received an envelope from Royal Mail returning a letter I had sent to the last known address of someone I had not contacted for some time. On the back of the Royal Mail envelope it say

    "When posting, always remember to:
    . Write a full return address on the reverse of the envelope"

    I had done that so why did they feel the need to open my envelope and address their envelope to me with just my first name (because that is what I had used when signing the letter) when I had provided my first and surname on the back of the envelope along with the address?

    They also put a sticker on saying "addressee gone away" whereas the person putting it back in the post had simply written "Return to Sender". Does Royal Mail know something in addition to what has been written on the envelope by the person receiving it?

    I'll try ringing the 0845 number to complain.
Page 1
    • bazzyb
    • By bazzyb 5th Oct 16, 9:33 PM
    • 874 Posts
    • 2,628 Thanks
    bazzyb
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 16, 9:33 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 16, 9:33 PM
    They also put a sticker on saying "addressee gone away" whereas the person putting it back in the post had simply written "Return to Sender". Does Royal Mail know something in addition to what has been written on the envelope by the person receiving it?
    Originally posted by General Grant
    They will usually try to specify a reason as to why something has been returned to you. It is likely that the regular postie would know that the person no longer loves there.

    It does seem odd however that they missed your return address - presumably it was clear and obvious as to what was the return address? It costs them a lot more money to send the item to be opened than it would to return the item directly to you unopened so I can't see that this would have been intentional.
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 5th Oct 16, 9:35 PM
    • 2,158 Posts
    • 17,466 Thanks
    mije1983
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 16, 9:35 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 16, 9:35 PM
    They also put a sticker on saying "addressee gone away" whereas the person putting it back in the post had simply written "Return to Sender". Does Royal Mail know something in addition to what has been written on the envelope by the person receiving it?
    Originally posted by General Grant
    Possibly a standard action when somebody puts RTS on a letter. I suppose the thinking is that if the person still lived there they would RTS it. Therefore they have 'gone away'. Not going to be always the case but I suggest a large majority would be this reason.



    I'll try ringing the 0845 number to complain.
    Originally posted by General Grant
    Personally I'd ring the 0345 number......

    • gazebo
    • By gazebo 6th Oct 16, 7:41 AM
    • 430 Posts
    • 472 Thanks
    gazebo
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 16, 7:41 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 16, 7:41 AM
    It will have been marked on the sticker as Gone Away because the person putting the sticker on it had to give a reason.

    It is unclear whether the item was handed back to the post person with Return to Sender written on it, or if it had been placed in a postbox and then dealt with by the postie who delivers that route. Look at the other options available on the sticker - Refused would be a potential option, but for a postie to use that, it has to be refused at the point of attempting delivery. Addressee Unknown would be the other, but again that would be given if the postie had been handed the letter back or if that has been written on the letter.

    In terms of why your return address was missed and the item opened, I cannot provide an explanation.

    Asking Royal Mail if they know something about the intended recipient that you don't will be a pointless exercise. If we aren't given a reason other than Return to Sender, and we have to fill in the sticker before returning mail, the default option is Gone Away.
    • fleshandbone
    • By fleshandbone 6th Oct 16, 9:15 AM
    • 445 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    fleshandbone
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 16, 9:15 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 16, 9:15 AM
    A Rather trivial thing to want to complain about.
    Remember the Royal Mail service and its hard working team of post men and women are not a god given right to you so you should treat each and everyone of them with respect.
    Live and let live, love and not hate, sing and be joyous, respect all mankind and natures gifts
    • General Grant
    • By General Grant 7th Oct 16, 9:27 PM
    • 528 Posts
    • 545 Thanks
    General Grant
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 16, 9:27 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 16, 9:27 PM
    A Rather trivial thing to want to complain about.
    Remember the Royal Mail service and its hard working team of post men and women are not a god given right to you so you should treat each and everyone of them with respect.
    Originally posted by fleshandbone
    You don't know the content of the letter which they opened.

    The service provided was paid for.

    Respect? Respect for my private correspondence?
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 7th Oct 16, 9:29 PM
    • 2,158 Posts
    • 17,466 Thanks
    mije1983
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 16, 9:29 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 16, 9:29 PM
    What did RM say when you called to complain?

    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 7th Oct 16, 9:56 PM
    • 2,437 Posts
    • 4,038 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 16, 9:56 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 16, 9:56 PM
    Is it possible that the person now living at the address you sent it to opened it and then returned it to the postie a day or so later, the address you put on as the return address could have been destroyed.

    I really can't see what exactly you want to complain about, you sent a letter to an incorrect address and they have returned it to you.
    • General Grant
    • By General Grant 8th Oct 16, 11:38 AM
    • 528 Posts
    • 545 Thanks
    General Grant
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 16, 11:38 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 16, 11:38 AM
    Is it possible that the person now living at the address you sent it to opened it and then returned it to the postie a day or so later, the address you put on as the return address could have been destroyed.

    I really can't see what exactly you want to complain about, you sent a letter to an incorrect address and they have returned it to you.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    The full address was still clearly visible when it came back to me because the envelope had been opened on another edge.

    The complaints are:
    + they delayed the return to me (evidenced by the date they have written on their red sticker affixed by the local delivery office more than 3 weeks earlier than it got back to me). The correct procedure was that the local office should have returned it to me rather than wasting their resources on sending it to Belfast for opening and re-direction
    + they opened a postal item there was no need to open and used the details it contained rather than the name provided on the envelope

    I have not complained to them that, when I phoned the number they provide on the back of their own envelope (an 0845 number), the first message is a suggestion to call an 0345 number as it could be cheaper! Perhaps the next print run will include the 0345 number.

    Any way my complaint has been registered and the local office should be told.

    As a side learning point - I know not to attempt to raise an issue by using the supposed "Vent" section of this website as it seems a means of allowing others to vent their frustrations against the poster's perceived petty problems.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 8th Oct 16, 11:55 AM
    • 2,583 Posts
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    George Michael
    It may well not have been RM that originally opened the letter as it could have been delivered to the address on it and then opened by the person living there.
    • kwikbreaks
    • By kwikbreaks 8th Oct 16, 6:05 PM
    • 8,307 Posts
    • 4,105 Thanks
    kwikbreaks
    As a side learning point - I know not to attempt to raise an issue by using the supposed "Vent" section of this website as it seems a means of allowing others to vent their frustrations against the poster's perceived petty problems.
    Originally posted by General Grant
    Too true - posting here is often an invitation for abuse. Sometimes deserved abuse though....
    • takman
    • By takman 9th Oct 16, 9:42 AM
    • 1,538 Posts
    • 1,179 Thanks
    takman
    It may well not have been RM that originally opened the letter as it could have been delivered to the address on it and then opened by the person living there.
    Originally posted by George Michael
    Yes that was my first thought.

    OP how do you that it was RM that opened the letter, does it say that on it?. That sticker on the back could be put on every letter.
    It could have been that the new people in the house opened the letter and saw it wasn't for them and decided it should be returned so that you know.
    Or maybe the person you contacted wanted to read the letter but wanted you to think they have moved away for some reason.
    • bazzyb
    • By bazzyb 9th Oct 16, 9:58 AM
    • 874 Posts
    • 2,628 Thanks
    bazzyb
    OP how do you that it was RM that opened the letter, does it say that on it?. That sticker on the back could be put on every letter.
    Originally posted by takman
    It's clear from the original post that the item was delivered back to them in a Royal Mail envelope, which had an address put on the envelope corresponding with what had been written on the inside of the item. This would only happen if the item had been sent to Belfast to be opened. The delay of several weeks to return the item also indicates that it was sent to Belfast to be opened, otherwise it would have been returned a lot quicker - usually a day or two.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 9th Oct 16, 6:37 PM
    • 31,508 Posts
    • 26,183 Thanks
    custardy
    The likelihood is the letter was put in the wrong bag at the original delivery office.
    Simple as that. So it went to Belfast and they likely open items as a matter of course.
    Belfast mail is direct and goes straight through,vs RTS items going through the mail system.
    • fleshandbone
    • By fleshandbone 10th Oct 16, 10:12 AM
    • 445 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    fleshandbone
    You don't know the content of the letter which they opened.

    The service provided was paid for.

    Respect? Respect for my private correspondence?
    Originally posted by General Grant
    Yes have some respect, they are not your slaves, they work very hard and instead of complaining you should follow the correct and proper procedures when posting letter.

    I thank you
    Live and let live, love and not hate, sing and be joyous, respect all mankind and natures gifts
    • bazzyb
    • By bazzyb 10th Oct 16, 6:56 PM
    • 874 Posts
    • 2,628 Thanks
    bazzyb
    Yes have some respect, they are not your slaves, they work very hard and instead of complaining you should follow the correct and proper procedures when posting letter.

    I thank you
    Originally posted by fleshandbone
    It seems from the information given that it was Royal Mail, rather than the OP, who failed to follow correct procedure.
    • SpammyTheSpammer
    • By SpammyTheSpammer 11th Oct 16, 8:19 AM
    • 1,389 Posts
    • 1,487 Thanks
    SpammyTheSpammer
    Profit Making organisation should be free from complaint.
    Remember the Royal Mail service and its hard working team of post men and women are not a god given right to you so you should treat each and everyone of them with respect.
    Originally posted by fleshandbone
    So puttup or shaddup
    ;-)
    I am a cow so cannot speak Bullshine but I do recognise its smell when I come upon it.
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 11th Oct 16, 9:15 AM
    • 8,175 Posts
    • 14,242 Thanks
    Pennywise
    The only beef I've got is that the whole situation arose because YOU sent a letter to an address which you didn't know was correct or not
    Originally posted by daytona0
    Actually, the fault is entirely that of the recipient who moved house without telling everyone or putting a redirection in place. That's quite a common failing. No fault to the person sending a letter because the default must be to use the last known address if they've not been told any different.

    If the recipient has suffered any loss of privacy or there's any security concern it is entirely of their own making. The sender has done nothing wrong - they put a return address on it so that it wouldn't be opened to find the sender's details and would be returned if not delivered. Royal Mail are wrong in opening a letter that had a return address on it.

    So, in reality, the sender is the innocent party. Both the intended recipient and Royal Mail are to blame for any consequences.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 11th Oct 16, 7:45 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 2,127 Thanks
    sheramber
    According to this page undelivered items are held for 18 calendar days before looking for a return address

    https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7171/~/what-happens-next-to-undelivered-mail%3F
    • custardy
    • By custardy 11th Oct 16, 7:52 PM
    • 31,508 Posts
    • 26,183 Thanks
    custardy
    According to this page undelivered items are held for 18 calendar days before looking for a return address

    https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7171/~/what-happens-next-to-undelivered-mail%3F
    Originally posted by sheramber
    The item wasn't undelivered. It was delivered and then returned to sender.
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