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  • FIRST POST
    • Billy the fish
    • By Billy the fish 23rd Sep 16, 11:31 PM
    • 69Posts
    • 18Thanks
    Billy the fish
    Advice on CPS midlands ticket
    • #1
    • 23rd Sep 16, 11:31 PM
    Advice on CPS midlands ticket 23rd Sep 16 at 11:31 PM
    Hi folks,

    A little experience in arguing the toss with council's in the past due to nature of my work and use of loading bays.


    Recently a friend was given a ticket by CPS midlands and was wondering what the best course of action is.

    Circumstances..

    Ticket given at 7.30pm a few about a week ago so a little dark and signage not lit. Nor does it bring attention to itself.

    Other advice ive been given is that the amount is buried amongst dense terms and also that there is no advertising consent from local authority an avenue to possibly explore.

    Driver recently passed test, so quite inexperienced.


    Heres photos of the sign in the daytime..




    I understand they are a member of the much loved IPC



    Should i advise the owner to contact with the template (admitting owner details but requesting the 8 points detailed?) in the hope of no NTK around day 18?

    Should i advise driver to appeal as per Consent for advertising from local authority and lack of attention drawn to signage/Amount is buried within dense terms and signage unlit?


    Or is there other advice i should heed as seems like a recent post in Aug 16 regarding CPS told the OP, little they could do as there a member of IPC but doesnt look like OP came back with any further info.

    Any info/advice gratefully recieved.
    Last edited by Billy the fish; 23-09-2016 at 11:39 PM.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Sep 16, 12:51 AM
    • 40,567 Posts
    • 52,457 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 24th Sep 16, 12:51 AM
    • #2
    • 24th Sep 16, 12:51 AM
    Should i advise the owner to contact with the template (admitting owner details but requesting the 8 points detailed?) in the hope of no NTK around day 18?
    Yes I'd say this is better than talking about advertising consent.

    Was the PCN for being on hatched lines? She looks like she's in a bay or is she not?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Billy the fish
    • By Billy the fish 24th Sep 16, 7:07 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy the fish
    • #3
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:07 PM
    • #3
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:07 PM
    Hi Coupon,

    Thanks for replying.

    The driver of the vehicle parked where the red car is but within the bay, not in the hatched area. The driver didnt take photos at the time of returning to vehicle.

    Ticket was for 'Parked without displaying valid Ticket/Permit'
    Vehicle was monitored for 5mins exactly according to the ticket.

    Ill advise owner to send the letter template requesting the 8 points layed out.

    Is the template sufficient, or will the owner need to add anything?

    Any time scales that need to be adhered to?

    Anything the owner or driver needs to be aware of?

    Any knowledge on current success rates against CPS now they with IPC?

    Any info/advice/guidance would be hugely appreciated.



    EDIT: Just trying to understand whether driver appeals at a certain time OR to wait for NTK then respond with the owner details template.
    Last edited by Billy the fish; 24-09-2016 at 7:19 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Sep 16, 7:17 PM
    • 36,470 Posts
    • 73,306 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:17 PM
    • #4
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:17 PM
    Charging 5% fee for ‘all’ card payments including debit cards is banned under statute, in the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012 explained here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/452405/BIS-15-343-BIS-payment-surcharges-guidance.pdf

    5% = 5 quid. Definitely a no-no.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 24th Sep 16, 7:22 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #5
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:22 PM
    • #5
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:22 PM
    Report the illegal debit/credit card charge in writing to you local Trading Standards Department.
    • Billy the fish
    • By Billy the fish 24th Sep 16, 7:28 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy the fish
    • #6
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:28 PM
    • #6
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:28 PM
    Super quick reply guys

    Thanks fruitcake for spotting that. Valuable information indeed.

    And The Deep, thanks for advice. Will follow up with a letter from the driver to Trading Standards.


    How should the driver/owner communicate back to CPS from previous post?

    Thanks for the info and advice, much appreciated.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Sep 16, 7:35 PM
    • 40,567 Posts
    • 52,457 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:35 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:35 PM
    Any knowledge on current success rates against CPS now they with IPC?
    There is almost no success at IAS stage so most here do not recommend it. Success rate would be 99% lost IMHO so tell the keeper appellant NOT to expect the challenge to actually 'work'. It is not meant to, it's just to just be one contact, rather than ignoring, in order to 'look reasonable' in the event of a future county court claim.

    So no need to bust a gut over the 'appeal'. Just make sure the driver is NOT implied and that the appeal is received within the timeline stated on the PCN. then sit tight and ignore anything except a solicitor's letter or court papers over the years.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Sep 16, 7:40 PM
    • 36,470 Posts
    • 73,306 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #8
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:40 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:40 PM
    Get your friend to send the IPC template to VCS. Copy and paste without editing. Complain to Trading Standards as advised by TD, and attach a copy of the complaint to the template so that VCS know you are on to them.

    Local and national press may be interested in the activities of this parking company, especially lack of advertising consent and illegal extra charges.

    The BPA don't allow the use of premium rate 'phone numbers. It will be worth looking at the IPC equivalent to see if there is any mileage there. I think there may also be some consumer reg's that prohibit the use of 08XX numbers as well, so that needs researching.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Sep 16, 7:44 PM
    • 36,470 Posts
    • 73,306 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:44 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Sep 16, 7:44 PM
    Found it!

    I believe the 084X number breaches Regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013. These regulations came from BIS, not Ofcom, and took effect on 13 June 2014. This can be reported to Trading Standards (via the Citizen's Advice national Consumer Helpline on 0345 404 0506).

    The omission of call costs from the sign breaches Ofcom regulations that took effect 1 July 2015. This can be reported to ASA via their webform
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Billy the fish
    • By Billy the fish 24th Sep 16, 8:21 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy the fish
    Crikey Fruitcake, your on the ball tonight.

    Again, well spotted and thanks for explaining it.

    So best to call TS and report debit/credit card surcharge & also that no call charges are present with an 084X number.

    Also worth reporting the possibility of no consent from local authority for advertising?

    ......

    Coupon-Mad...

    Are you saying theres little chance of beating this charge?

    Or are you implying that appealing will be rejected (which im aware of) and same at IPC so to wait for the legal papers to be drawn and sent and then let the legal aspects take care of themselves in a sense and as such beating the charge that way? (If it ever gets that far)
    • Billy the fish
    • By Billy the fish 24th Sep 16, 8:26 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy the fish
    Fruitcake, just for info.

    I Believe CPS are no longer a member of BPA and as of April 2016 are now an IPC member.

    So dont think BPA would apply here unless someone knows otherwise.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Sep 16, 8:53 PM
    • 36,470 Posts
    • 73,306 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Fruitcake, just for info.

    I Believe CPS are no longer a member of BPA and as of April 2016 are now an IPC member.

    So dont think BPA would apply here unless someone knows otherwise.
    Originally posted by Billy the fish
    That's why I said to look for any IPC similar requirements in their CoP that are equivalent to the one in the BPA CoP that definitely prohibits the use of premium rate numbers.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Billy the fish
    • By Billy the fish 25th Sep 16, 12:44 AM
    • 69 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy the fish
    Couldnt see anything in the IPC CoP regarding use of premium rate numbers.

    1 or 2 things though that appear not in order maybe according to their CoP.

    It states CPS have to have the term 'Creditor' against there business name. Creditor appears no where on the sign at all.

    Also in the CoP is a part about the Parking Charge Notice NOT using the term PCN unless otherwise states it relative to Parking Charge Notice. It s stated on the front of ticket but on the back and tear off slip PCN is mentioned numerous times in capitals.



    Will go over the CoP again tomorrow when im less tired.

    Thanks for all the info so far
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Sep 16, 12:53 AM
    • 40,567 Posts
    • 52,457 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Coupon-Mad...

    Are you saying theres little chance of beating this charge?

    Or are you implying that appealing will be rejected (which im aware of) and same at IPC so to wait for the legal papers to be drawn and sent and then let the legal aspects take care of themselves in a sense and as such beating the charge that way? (If it ever gets that far)
    Originally posted by Billy the fish
    The second option. I would never say there is little chance of beating ANY parking charge including PCNs from Councils. Almost all are beatable.


    P.S. Are you called 'Billy the Fish' on a football forum too? I know it's based on a cartoon character, just wondered if you use the name on another forum.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 26-09-2016 at 12:05 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Billy the fish
    • By Billy the fish 27th Sep 16, 1:19 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy the fish
    Hey Coupon. That wont be me on the football forum. Ive only used this name on a this and 1 other forum, not relative to footy. Im a tricky trees fan though



    Just rumbled up this letter to trading standards, writing letters are not really my strong point though..

    Let me know how it looks if you dont mind guys please.




    To whom it may concern,

    RE: CPS (midlands) LTD
    Mercury House
    NG7 7FN
    TEL: 08342 898721


    Id like to report CPS (midlands) LTD for the following breaches in relation to ...
    'Regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013' in that the omission of call costs from their signage(see attached photo) breaches Ofcom regulations that took effect 1 July 2015.

    Also,
    Id like to report CPS (midlands) LTS for breach of...
    'Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012' in that the sign(see attached photo) information states that a 5% surcharge will be added to all debit & credit card payments.

    The signs are located on Meadow Grove, Nottingham, NG2 3HF on and around units B & C.

    Yours faithfully






    Anything i should add/remove?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Sep 16, 2:15 PM
    • 40,567 Posts
    • 52,457 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Seems worth a shot although I doubt TS will do anything! The legislation you quote is correct but TS will probably wash their hands of it.

    Your main 'job' with an IPC 'PCN' is to ignore debt collector letters and make sure you never miss checking the letters over the next six years (tell them if you move house) just in case of a future sneaky court claim & unknown CCJ catching you by surprise one day.



    P.S. A Forest fan! welcome. I'm a Seagulls fan and we also have a Boro fan on here plus others.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Stuck1
    • By Stuck1 17th Oct 16, 11:09 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Stuck1
    Hi all,

    Is there any update on this? I've found it really useful. I received a fine from the same company yesterday under similar circumstances and I'm wondering what to do. I've read lots of threads on this subject, but very few seem to detail how it "plays out", which makes me think that most people end up settling the fine.

    Thanks for any info.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Oct 16, 12:15 PM
    • 40,567 Posts
    • 52,457 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Almost no-one here settles the charge - which is not a fine! DO NOT PAY.

    Given that this lot do not sue people:

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/CPS_Midlands.html

    Why oh why would anyone pay the blighters?! It's an invoice, like a phishing email. People happily ignore these all the time where it's a small firm.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Billy the fish
    • By Billy the fish 11th Nov 16, 4:21 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy the fish
    Update:

    The letter was sent to CPS midlands regarding the 8 points layed out in the template.

    Also sent letter to trading standards and also a copy of trading standards letter to CPS midlands.

    CPS wrote back ignoring the points in the original letter and just asking for the owner to forward the letter onto the driver and that they would extend the 21 day appeal period.

    The letter was given to the driver but i know they havnt responded.


    Today is day 57 after the alleged offence and no NTO has arrived so i assume the popla argument will be the way forward should any further letters be received.
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 1st Dec 16, 1:14 PM
    • 5,320 Posts
    • 5,322 Thanks
    StaffsSW
    Slightly old thread bump here, but does anyone know why CPS Midlands issue their Notice to Keeper via TNC Collections?

    I'm in receipt of a Ntk dated October for a driver ticket issued in July. The stroppy little oik on the 0141 280 4900 actually hung up on me when I politely asked how they were going to invoke keeper liability with a NtK sent so long after the event...
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
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