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  • FIRST POST
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 12th Apr 15, 8:29 AM
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    esmerobbo
    New signs at JLA.
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 15, 8:29 AM
    New signs at JLA. 12th Apr 15 at 8:29 AM
    Had reason to pass this morning noticed shiny new signs at the road into JLA. Did not have a camera but I will soon. Main difference is below the "NO STOPPING" is the line "£100 CHARGE IF YOU STOP"
    The font as been increased slightly, and they have added a repeater sign further along from the junction and one as you come back on yourself from the roundabout.

    I wonder if it had anything to do with Pranky's blog after we posted the signage up here?

    Also wonder why the IAS thought all previous appeals should not be upheld, if the signage needed changing?

    Pictures will follow shortly.
    Last edited by esmerobbo; 14-04-2015 at 10:18 AM.
Page 1
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 12th Apr 15, 8:51 AM
    • 3,139 Posts
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    The Slithy Tove
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 15, 8:51 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 15, 8:51 AM
    The usual contradictory rubbish which would stand no chance in court.

    Either
    You CAN stop if you pay them £100, which makes the first line nonsense
    Or
    The £100 is clearly a penalty in order to deter a certain behaviour.

    Saying "No Stopping" does not even start to offer a contract, as you can't start a contract with a definite prohibition.
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 12th Apr 15, 9:14 AM
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    trisontana
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 15, 9:14 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 15, 9:14 AM
    I thought that VCS was a private parking company and not the police. So why are they dabbling in this "no stopping" nonsense?

    I know that they have quoted "security matters" in the past, but as they are not a branch of the security services that is all hot air and just an excuse to dish out their fake fines.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
  • BenefitMaster
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 15, 10:58 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 15, 10:58 AM
    There is no way the can make the signage offer a contract compliant POFA that prevents a vehicle from simply stopping.

    In any case, it's still not relevant land.
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 14th Apr 15, 10:15 AM
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    esmerobbo
    • #5
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:15 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:15 AM
    Photo of new signs at JLA.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Newly installed repeater signs 50 metres along the road.

    • bazster
    • By bazster 14th Apr 15, 10:20 AM
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    bazster
    • #6
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:20 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:20 AM
    Makes no difference whatsoever as far as I can see. There's still nothing beyond "No Stopping" that could be read from a vehicle moving at 30mph, ergo no contract.

    Also does not and cannot do anything to alter the "no keeper liability" situation.
    Je suis Charlie.
    • ManxRed
    • By ManxRed 14th Apr 15, 10:25 AM
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    ManxRed
    • #7
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:25 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:25 AM
    Under what process do they obtain RK details, given that this is nothing to do with parking?
    Je Suis Cecil.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Apr 15, 10:26 AM
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    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:26 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:26 AM
    And no 'You agree to pay' contractual tosh! One can only deduce this is a penalty designed to deter stopping!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • ManxRed
    • By ManxRed 14th Apr 15, 10:34 AM
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    ManxRed
    • #9
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:34 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Apr 15, 10:34 AM
    From the KADOE agreement.

    B2. Purpose For Which Data Is Provided

    B2.1. The DVLA shall provide each requested item of Data to the Customer via the KADOE Service for the Reasonable Cause of enabling the Customer to:

    a) seek recovery of unpaid Parking Charges in accordance with the Accredited Trade Association Code of Practice, and using the procedure in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (where the vehicle was parked on private land in England or Wales on a particular date); and

    b) otherwise seek recovery from a driver of unpaid Parking Charges in accordance with the Accredited Trade Association Code of Practice (where the vehicle was parked on private land in Scotland or Northern Ireland by that driver on a particular date, or where the Customer has chosen not to pursue, or is not in a position to pursue the vehicle keeper by utilising conditions in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012).
    No mention of 'stopping' contraventions.
    Je Suis Cecil.
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 14th Apr 15, 10:40 AM
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    trisontana
    It gets even worse. On PPP somebody has just posted up pictures taken at a MOTO service station showing a CP Plus sign. This says that if you carry out any "commercial activity" then you have to pay them £100 . It also says that they will obtain your details from the DVLA.

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=98247&hl=
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • ManxRed
    • By ManxRed 14th Apr 15, 10:43 AM
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    ManxRed
    Multiple DPA breaches in my opinion. And by 'multiple' I am being conservative.
    Je Suis Cecil.
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 14th Apr 15, 10:51 AM
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    • 2,971 Thanks
    Iceweasel
    That sign is a joke - it has the same legal standing as if I were to put one up at the entrance to my street.

    It doesn't conform to anything in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 - so that's an end to the matter.

    They obviously haven't checked:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223943/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

    Section 9, Diagram 642 on page 76.

    Do they actually have a 24 hour Clearway Order I wonder?
    • nigelbb
    • By nigelbb 14th Apr 15, 3:42 PM
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    nigelbb
    If one accepted that it is even possible to enter a contract by reading a road sign as it flashed past then this particular sign is not capable of offering a contract as the details of the contracting party are inadequate e.g. the registered company address is missing.
    • Parking-Prankster
    • By Parking-Prankster 15th Apr 15, 10:49 PM
    • 304 Posts
    • 1,133 Thanks
    Parking-Prankster
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/vehicle-control-systems-signage-at.html


    I have reanalysed the signs based on this new information
    Hi, we’ve approved your signature. It's awesome. Please email the forum team if you want more praise - MSE ForumTeam
    • jemgee
    • By jemgee 16th Apr 15, 12:25 AM
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    jemgee
    Purely a hypothetical question. If a number of motorists decided quite independently to take a leisurely drive at say 5mph around the roads which displayed the signage in order of course to adequately read the vcs signage and unfortunately caused considerable congestion in the process one wonders what the hell JLA and vcs could do about it
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 16th Apr 15, 6:20 AM
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    esmerobbo
    One has to wonder why Peel bought this road in 2007, it already gave access to the Airport on the left and the car parks on the right. It had official double yellow lines along its full length, the same as the much more of a security threat Dunlop and Hale roads.

    Their claim for the need to stop people stopping or parking for security and obstruction purposes is nonsense.

    Anyone who knows the area, would know that Dunlop and Hale roads are a far greater security risk and obstruction problem. However due to VCS's predatory practice people and taxi's are stopping on theses roads waiting for flights to come in.

    Any emergency vehicle would enter the Airport from the Hale road entrance which is the main entrance. Which is also nearer the terminal and airfield.

    They use the same predatory tactics on Peels industrial park next door. Quoting the same the need for security bull, yet if you take a step off their road you are on NT land and could set up a rocket launcher as you could at the other end of the airfield on Oglet lane which is a public highway.

    It is also strange that the adjoining industrial estate do not have any parking restrictions and also don't have any parking problems. I have never seen a car parked there.

    It would seem this road was purchased simply to enable VCS to issue charges for stopping on it. As it is simply as was in 2007 when Peel bought it.
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 16th Apr 15, 6:44 AM
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    esmerobbo
    Be interesting to hear from someone who receives a charge since these signs what the charge is. As there is no mention of the 40% reduction if paid within a certain time.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 16th Apr 15, 7:37 AM
    • 1,022 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    I'm going to bet that the changes in signs was for the IPC's benefit and not for any other purpose.

    The IPC send out a "training pack" to the "barristers" that adjudicate for them. There is a signage schedule in there which the IPC has withdrawn from circulation (wonder why)

    So although you may not know what is in the signage schedule, you can make a good guess.

    With IPC always go after the signs
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
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