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  • FIRST POST
    Keep it safe
    Justgiving: profit in disguise
    • #1
    • 7th Dec 14, 4:44 PM
    Justgiving: profit in disguise 7th Dec 14 at 4:44 PM
    We sat down this afternoon to make our annual donations to various charities, including £150 + Giftaid to the Simon Community. After we made the donation we noticed the money went to a company called Justgiving and at first thought we had been scammed.

    We re-opened the Simon donation page and realised the only mention of Justgiving was the name on a strip across the page. Research reveals that Justgiving is a trading name of Giving Ltd. which makes over £1 million a year by raking off at least 6.5% of our donations.

    I make no comment on whether Justgiving offers value to the charity or whether the Simon Community should use a less expensive provider. My wife and I do feel misled by the Simon Community webpage in that we thought we were helping the Simons and not some fatcats in London. This sorry tale has led us to question the whole charity industry.
Page 1
    • dzug1
    • By dzug1 7th Dec 14, 5:13 PM
    • 13,364 Posts
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    dzug1
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 14, 5:13 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 14, 5:13 PM
    Well evidently the Simons have reckoned that paying 6.5% to Justgiving is better than trying to do the job themselves and making a botch of it.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 7th Dec 14, 5:23 PM
    • 7,102 Posts
    • 7,385 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 14, 5:23 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 14, 5:23 PM
    If you went through the Simon Community website it would have told you:

    One-off Donations Online

    There are two ways to donate on line:

    (1) at our JustGiving site log on now
    (2) through the Charities Aid Foundation secure site using your credit/debit card or CAF Charity Card donate now
    I think it's very clear that they are using intermediaries to process your donation. It also gives the option of posting them a cheque etc.

    In terms of value, the JustGiving fee is 5% which includes processing the Gift Aid claim administration. 1.3% is to WorldPay for a credit card fee (or 17p if you'd used a debit card). It's likely the charity finds this competitive with running their own payment processing website, merchant account, and HMRC claim processing.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
  • Keep it safe
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 14, 6:26 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 14, 6:26 PM
    That's my point -- we did go through the Simon Community website and saw no reference to Justgiving until we reached the secure donation page, unlike the other charity sites where we have also donated. (In our innocence we thought we were helping a local charity.) For example, some Service charities use Bmycharity which does not take a rakeoff for handling donations. We've also found more about Justgiving, which we had not heard of, and found that its chief executive is paid £150k pa and that its profits have fallen from £3.5 million to £1 million 2011/2012. Hard times for everyone I suppose ...
    • Armorica
    • By Armorica 7th Dec 14, 6:48 PM
    • 659 Posts
    • 497 Thanks
    Armorica
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 14, 6:48 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 14, 6:48 PM
    Justgiving is pretty famous. I believe that charities that use it find it cost effective and benefit from an increase in donations due to the ease of giving.

    Nothing in life is free in the long term. You also seem to blur the line between income and profit.

    Justgiving was founded in 2000 and didn't make profits until 2006. By March 2012 it had collected £1bn for charity (with costs/profits of a small %age of that number). Justgiving also makes it easy for charities to reclaim giftaid - this is one of the reasons why charities get more money this way.

    Traditional charity donators are middle aged and above. Justgiving - with links to facebook and use of the net - has seen increases in donations from the younger population.
    • dzug1
    • By dzug1 7th Dec 14, 7:29 PM
    • 13,364 Posts
    • 6,123 Thanks
    dzug1
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 14, 7:29 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 14, 7:29 PM
    . (In our innocence we thought we were helping a local charity.)...
    Originally posted by Keep it safe

    What makes you think you weren't?
    • asajj
    • By asajj 7th Dec 14, 9:54 PM
    • 3,932 Posts
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    asajj
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 14, 9:54 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 14, 9:54 PM
    You never heard of JustGiving? Well they are pretty big and a good platform for many charities.

    They offer many ways to donate and they take away a lot of admin job away from the charities (which is a cost saving). Gift aid is an expensive process and they also track it for charities as said above.

    As for the salary of the CEO, well i'm afraid, for London, this is even a low salary. Plus there are many charities paying similar salaries to their executives.
    £2015 in 2015 / £2015

    No buying unnecessary stuff.
    Clearing out by selling on Ebay, donating to charity etc.
    • charliewocka
    • By charliewocka 8th Dec 14, 4:10 PM
    • 395 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    charliewocka
    • #8
    • 8th Dec 14, 4:10 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Dec 14, 4:10 PM
    Hi there, I lead a Charity Group at work, raising funds for employee nominated charities each year. With JustGiving, the Virgin equivalent, CAF etc. there is a processing fee. It might seem steep or unfair to have to pay, but having spoken to charities, it works out cost efficient to them because they have a company who is handling the processing of donations, calculating and claiming the tax relief etc. If a donation is eligible for gift aid, by the time you take off the processing fee, they are still receiving over 100% of your original donation.


    Not sure if you are employed, but it could be worth asking your employer what their charitable process is? I am very lucky as my company match all employee donations and we gift aid as well, using CAF. We have the option to donate at source, so a £10 donation to charity costs an employee £8, or £6 if a 40% taxpayer, plus gift aid is added on top. I've encouraged a large amount of employees to route their standard monthly/annual donations through this way to get a huge benefit to charities.
  • Keep it safe
    • #9
    • 8th Dec 14, 6:09 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Dec 14, 6:09 PM
    Our thanks to everyone for your explanations and views. As you gather we are past middle age, non-techie, and well out of touch with today's billionaire charity "industry" and its fundraising methods.

    We have decided to use Bmycharity for future donations, avoiding the rakeoff by third parties. Otherwise we are sending old-fashioned cheques to charities based in our local area rather than national organisations many of which spend 25% of our donations on raising even more funds ... but then as I said, we're old-fashioned.
    • oldtoolie
    • By oldtoolie 10th Dec 14, 5:11 PM
    • 727 Posts
    • 576 Thanks
    oldtoolie
    All donation processors charge fees of some sort. Bmycharity has a low processing fee for the individual donation but a higher joining fee for the charity.

    Running a charity effectively always entails costs. Good charities balance fundraising and administration costs with the sums they need to raise to achieve the results they are seeking.

    Charities pay landlords, printers, web design companies, rubbish collectors, accountants and much more. The salary of the CEOs of these companies is irrelevant to the work of that charity.

    What is important is that charities seek value for money in their purchasing.
    • vikki_louise
    • By vikki_louise 11th Dec 14, 11:08 AM
    • 2,274 Posts
    • 5,812 Thanks
    vikki_louise
    I wouldn't stop supporting a charity just because they use justgiving. Although some big charities do use justgiving it's often small ones who could never otherwise take donations by credit or debit card as you need a big income (and a member of staff or volunteer) to do that.
    Did you know you can look charities up and see their income and how they spend it? This is the one you helped http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=2 83938&SubsidiaryNumber=0
    Best wins in 2013 £200 and Mini iPad. 2014 no wins. 2015 2 nights 5* hotel with £300 vouchers plus £1150 Harrods gift card
    Rehome an unwanted prize or gift with a seriously ill child through Postpals.co.uk
    • davetrousers
    • By davetrousers 11th Dec 14, 11:13 AM
    • 5,529 Posts
    • 4,739 Thanks
    davetrousers
    Virgin money do not charge.

    I absolutely will not donate to a charity via justgiving out of principle. If I wish to donate to the charity I will do it directly.

    I feel people use justgiving as they do no research into their options. And this make the bosses of justgiving very rich.
    .....

    • SailorSam
    • By SailorSam 11th Dec 14, 11:47 AM
    • 21,268 Posts
    • 36,776 Thanks
    SailorSam
    Thanks vikki for that link, and for the Virgin one dave.
    I've been trying to get around to writing my Will and i'm reluctant to leave anything to a Charity were much of it will be creamed off in commissions to fund raisers.
    Liverpool is one of the wonders of Britain,
    What it may grow to in time, I know not what.

    Daniel Defoe: 1725.
    • oldtoolie
    • By oldtoolie 12th Dec 14, 12:52 PM
    • 727 Posts
    • 576 Thanks
    oldtoolie
    Here is what Virgin Giving says about their charges:

    "We only charge what we need to cover our operating costs.

    Just one £100 + VAT set-up charge, and 2% of donations. That’s it.

    We don’t charge an ongoing fee to be on our site and there are no monthly or annual fees. Plus we don’t charge to collect Gift Aid.

    So more money goes where it's needed - directly to your charity."
    ====================

    Virgin Giving is still a good deal for charities even with the charges. The last charity I worked for subscribed to Just Giving and Virgin Giving. The rational was to make it as easy as possible to donors, offering them whatever mechanism they wanted to use.
    Last edited by oldtoolie; 12-12-2014 at 1:08 PM.
    • redpete
    • By redpete 13th Dec 14, 10:59 PM
    • 4,054 Posts
    • 3,579 Thanks
    redpete
    (In our innocence we thought we were helping a local charity.)
    Originally posted by Keep it safe
    You were, to the tune of 93.5% of your total donation.
    Our thanks to everyone for your explanations and views.
    So why ignore the advice that smaller charities like the one you chose find it more effective to pay someone else to administer their donations than employ additional staff to do the same job themselves (and if they did they would no doubt be criticised for not using 100% of the donations for direct charitable purposes.).
    As you gather we are past middle age, non-techie, and well out of touch with today's billionaire charity "industry" and its fundraising methods.
    Whilst I agree that £150k sounds a rather good salary it hardly means that the Simon Community is part of any "billionaire charity industry".

    We have decided to use Bmycharity for future donations, avoiding the rakeoff by third parties.
    Their is a small (1.6%) transaction fee passed on by them; and as they are part of and "supported by Help for Heroes" then other costs will come out of donations to Help for Heroes rather than from the money you pay to other charities. They might well be more efficient than other donation administers but don't believe that their services are totally free - someone pays the salaries and other costs.
    Otherwise we are sending old-fashioned cheques to charities based in our local area rather than national organisations many of which spend 25% of our donations on raising even more funds ... but then as I said, we're old-fashioned.
    It would be worth asking how much it costs them to process the cheque, pay it into their bank account and submit a Gift Aid claim..
    Last edited by redpete; 14-12-2014 at 11:30 AM.
    loose does not rhyme with choose but lose does and is the word you meant to write.
    • kazzah
    • By kazzah 18th Jan 15, 11:07 PM
    • 378 Posts
    • 365 Thanks
    kazzah
    Virgin money do not charge.

    I absolutely will not donate to a charity via justgiving out of principle. If I wish to donate to the charity I will do it directly.

    I feel people use justgiving as they do no research into their options. And this make the bosses of justgiving very rich.
    Originally posted by davetrousers
    sorry Dave- but they DO charge - they charge LESS than justgiving however they DO charge

    I am the chairman of a very small charity for a rare condition and i can tell you that the £18 per month we pay justgiving is one of the BEST investments we make - in the 9 years since we have been with them supporters of our charity have raised a staggering £147,000 - yes we pay per month - BUT it is VERY convenient FOR OUR SUPPORTERS...... they can set up a justgiving page and their friends can sponsor them via the page- the supporter doesn't have to chase people for sponsor money, doesn't have to bother sending us a cheque or paying cash into the bank, doesn't need to get sponsor forms signed- it is VERY easy
    the money gets paid directly into our charity bank account and the Justgiving team sort all the giftaid information out for us
    as a small charity working ENTIRELY with volunteers this gives us an excellent streamlined facility which is well known and respected in the charitable sector - and we would definitely be lost without it
  • Crinklewood
    Just Giving (or not)
    Hi,
    I am in the process of organising a Charity Summer Ball. This set off as a major family celebration for my Mum's 90th Birthday but somehow it multiplied big time and I've ended up putting on a big charity event!
    As a family (and because of close family ties) the event is to raise funds for
    The Special Care Baby Unit at Scarborough General Hospital (my daughter is a specialist neo natal nurse/ward sister there) and they are short of funds to replace old worn out equipment and short of specialist trained nurses.
    The Neo Natal Intensive Care Unit at Hull Royal Infirmary (my daughter did part of her training there and it is also the centre where very small / ill tiny patients are sometimes sent from Scarborough SCBU)
    MacMillan Cancer Support - I am a Cancer Sufferer, my Mum is/was and my late Dad had Lung Cancer - without MacMillan I would not be there.
    The charity Ball has been set up under a Trust Fund to benefit the 3 charities equally.
    Someone suggested I create a Just Giving Account so contacted them and explained the Ball framework and the fact all 3 charitable causes will get an equal share of what the Ball raises along with an equal share of any other funds raised.
    However Just Giving do not allow you to have "an umbrella account" but you have to have a seperate page for each charity so people can donate to their preferred charity.
    As a result the 3 charities the ball is for would not receive an equal share of my family's efforts - so I am not going down Just Giving Road.
    Although I have to say having read the previous posts on this thread I am pleased I haven't created a Just Giving account for each charity - they would lose out. So thank you to whoever started this thread
    • Hedgehog99
    • By Hedgehog99 18th Jan 15, 11:20 PM
    • 1,132 Posts
    • 2,367 Thanks
    Hedgehog99
    I'm not keen on Just Giving and their ilk either, but, I suppose, the end result is similar - if you give via a donation site, they do some of the admin and take some of your donation; if you give direct to a charity, they do some admin which is usually paid for out of donations.

    Overall, as long as the fees are clearly stated, it's up to the donor.

    Those mailings you get through the post with address stickers or greetings cards or a pen... even though the materials are paid for by sponsors, if I was the sponsor, Id want my thousands of pounds to go on the charity's work, not on getting small donations out of guilt-tripped grannies' pensions.

    Now, I really dislike chuggers...
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