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Is there any point in reporting an ATOS HCP to the GMC?

Hi,

I am going through the migration process to ESA at present and I know it may sound foolish on my part to ask this question, but here goes.

If I am turned down for ESA I will request the ATOS hcp medical report (ESA 85 is it) and if I feel it is very inaccurate I will of course appeal.

But is there any point in reporting the atos hcp to the GMC if I feel the medical report is wildy inaccurate and would it leave me open to any legal action from the atos hcp if I did?

Of course I do hope it never ever reaches that stage but I think its better to know in advance any consequences.

Thanks
John

Comments

  • rogerblack
    rogerblack Posts: 9,446 Forumite
    johnsmi wrote: »
    But is there any point in reporting the atos hcp to the GMC if I feel the medical report is wildy inaccurate and would it leave me open to any legal action from the atos hcp if I did?

    In principle, a malicious unfounded appeal may leave you open to legal issues.
    An important note is that it is important to complain to ATOS using their formal complaint procedure if your report is inadequate - even if you do not feel it is bad enough to warrant a complaint to the GMC/NMWC/...
  • schrodie
    schrodie Posts: 8,410 Forumite
    Firstly I suggest if you have to have a WCA then requesting to get it recorded. For obvious reasons Atos don't particularly like people having their WCAs recorded but I'd certainly press for one. Also take along a friend to take notes and to act as a witness.

    Remember you're being assessesed from the moment you enter their car park to the moment you leave.

    If you don't get the result you genuinely believe you should then if you want appeal and ask for the ESA85 and compare what the atos person had reported to what was actually said. Note any descrepancies if there are any.

    As Roger has said a malicious appeal is not advised and if you do have a genuine cause for complaint then as a first course of action go through (for what it's worth) the atos compliants procedure.
  • Brassedoff
    Brassedoff Posts: 1,217 Forumite
    edited 25 May 2013 at 8:19AM
    How can an a genuine appeal where the HCP has breached their own organisations code of conduct.

    1. Lets say that you said I can stand, but walk only 10 metres, but in severe pain. Any further and I need to rest.
    The Doctor asks questions, does the mini exam and puts down that you can do some walking, thus fit for some work.

    What part of their code have they broke?

    [LIST=2]
    [*]You're asked how long you can sit? You answer that you can sit for 30 minutes or so, but then need to stand and walking a while before sitting again.
    [/LIST]

    The Doctor put down you have no problem sitting and standing and are fit to do some work

    What have they broke there?

    [LIST=3]
    [*]Let's say you have concentration problems and this gives you short spells of attention. You are a machine operator. You are asked whats your favourite TV programme and how long it is on for. You say you like to watch Cricket on TV and it allows you to take it in bite sized chunks. You are asked do you read books? Yes is the reply as I am in bed a lot. The only part of that answer recorded was that you can read.
    [/LIST]

    The Doctor asks questions, does the mini exam and puts down, then says you have no problems with your concentration and can follow long and complex items. What have they broken?

    [LIST=4]
    [*]You are asked if you picked the clothes you are wearing, wash and dress yourself? Yes, you say the top half, if the wife's around. If not, you just wet your feet with the shower head
    [/LIST]

    The a doctor says you are able to wash, dry and dress yourself? What have they broken?

    [LIST=5]
    [*]You suffer from a serious knee injury. The Doctor asks how you got there? You reply, "in the car, parked up there"
    [/LIST]

    The doctor says as the car park is 400 yards from the assessment centre, you are more than able to walk from a car park and are able to work. They ignore the letters from your own GP & Consultant by using the imaginary wheelchair test. What have they broken?


    The Work Capacity Assessment Handbook that the Doctor uses suggests that if you have problems walking, you should also be
    assessed on how far you can propel a manual wheelchair, even if you don’t use one. Now, you don't have one, but is this a clear breach of 2(c)?

    [LIST=6]
    [*]making self understood – stating that means of communication include those normally used and those that could reasonably be used; In your form you have said you have trouble speaking to strangers.The Doctor has a five minute conversation with you about the weather and what a poor summer we have. You engage, talk about it
    [/LIST]

    By doing so you have just fitted into the "making self understood" descriptor. What has the Doctor broken?

    The Doctor might ask you if you ever catch a bus to go shopping. Of you say yes, you have just opened yourself to yet another 0 zero points?

    Why? Well by saying you go shopping or catch buses, the doctor will put that into LIMA which then automatically assumes are able stand in queues for 30 minutes or more.

    But, and this is big, you have also adjusted questions 1,2 and 5. What part of the GMC code have they broken too?

    General Medical - Council Code of Conduct

    1. For us to command the confidence of all of our key interests, it is necessary that Council as the governing body should adopt and comply with appropriate standards of conduct. Upon appointment, all Council members are required to confirm their commitment to the
    Members’ Code of Conduct.

    Principles
    2. In performing their duties, members uphold the seven principles identified by the Nolan Committee in its first report on standards in public life in May 1995 (the Nolan principles):

    Corporate responsibilities
    3. We are the regulator for doctors in the UK, with responsibility for protecting, promoting and maintaining the health and safety of the public by ensuring proper standards in the practice of medicine, as set out in the Medical Act 1983 as amended. Council members have a duty to ensure that our functions are effectively discharged in the interests of public protection.
    4. Members, as trustees of a corporate body employing staff, also have a duty to ensure that the GMC complies with relevant employment, equalities, human rights, health and safety, data protection and freedom of information legislation.
    5. Members have corporate responsibility for ensuring that Council complies with any statutory or administrative requirements for the use of its funds.
    6. As trustees of a charity registered in England and Wales and in Scotland, members have corporate responsibility for ensuring that Council complicates with charity law and the requirements of the Charity Commission and the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator.
    7. The Council is accountable to the public through Parliament and the Privy Council.

    Duties of individuals
    8. Members have a duty to make themselves available for service on the Council and those of its Committees and other Groups to which they may be appointed.
    9. Members have a duty to ensure that they have a clear understanding of their responsibilities as trustees of a registered charity and that they meet the legal requirements for eligibility to serve as a charity trustee as specified in section 72 of the Charities Act 1993.
    10. Members have a duty to notify the Privy Council and the Chief Executive if, following appointment, they become or may be about to become liable to be removed from office in any of the circumstances provided in paragraph 6 of the GMC Constitution Order 2008.
    11. Members have a duty to ensure that all their decisions and actions as trustees are taken in the best interests of the charity and the public interest, putting its interests before any personal or professional interests, and that they:
    a. Contribute to our objective to protect the public.
    b. Are within our obligations under the Medical Act 1983 as amended and other legislation.
    c. Take into account the views and needs of key interest groups.
    12. Members have a duty to ensure that they have a clear understanding of the scope of the schedule of authority and, having given that authority, ensure that it is not undermined.
    13. Members accept collective responsibility for enabling Council to achieve its objectives and for decisions taken by Council. Members are expected to contribute to discussion and debate freely to enable a robust decision to be made. Once Council has taken a decision, members must support the communication and implementation of that decision
    14. Members have a duty to be as open as possible with key interests about the decisions and actions of the GMC, restricting information only when the principles of confidentiality or the law require it.
    15. Members have a duty to distinguish clearly, when speaking or writing, between views held by themselves personally or based on any other organisational affiliations they may have and those of the GMC. Any communication with the media about our work, including publication of views via the internet or by other means, should be discussed with the media team before a statement is published. In communicating with the media or making any statement, members do so on the basis of collective responsibility and in support of our purpose and policies.
    16. Members may be approached by individuals or organisations that wish to lobby them on our work, including policy matters and operational decisions on particular cases. Members may take account of the views of others and undertake to make them known to the GMC if appropriate, but should avoid taking any action or making any commitment which might indicate their acceptance of the lobbyist’s position. Any queries or correspondence about operational decisions involving cases of individual doctors are to be referred to the executive for any response.
    17. Members have a duty to lead by example, always demonstrating respect and dignity for others - Valuing diversity in recruitment; valuing diversity and conducting themselves in a non-discriminatory manner at all times. Working together effectively means, for Council members and staff, observing the following working principles:
    a. Trust between colleagues - being honest and open; acting with integrity and respect for each other.
    b. Good communication - sharing information and listening to others.
    c. Ideas and creativity - offering ideas and being open to ideas proposed by others.
    d. Individual responsibility - accepting responsibility for achieving goals and for the quality of our work.
    e. Problem solving, finding solutions - working to find creative solutions to problems.
    f. Openness to learning and feedback - seeking to improve ourselves and how we work.
    g. Collaboration with others - working constructively with colleagues to a common purpose.
    18. Members have a duty to be committed to the continuing demonstration of the competences required for the effective performance of their role on Council and on any of its Committees, and other Groups.
    19. Members have a duty to participate in the appraisal process and actively commit to achieving any personal development objectives identified during the appraisal process.
    20. Members have a duty to complete and maintain their entry in the Council Members’ Register of Interests, declaring any professional, business, or personal interests which may, or might be perceived to, conflict with their responsibilities as Council members in accordance with Council’s guidance.
    21. Members have a duty to avoid placing themselves under obligation to any individual or organisation which might affect their ability to act impartially and objectively as Council members. This includes observing our guidance on conflicts of interest and on gifts, hospitality and fees for speaking engagements and making any declarations as required by this guidance
    22. Members have a duty to raise any concerns about possible wrongdoing within the GMC, as set out in our Public Information Disclosure Policy, with the Chief Executive if it concerns a member of staff, with the Chair of Council if it concerns the Chief Executive or another member, or with the Chairs of the Audit and Risk, Remuneration and Member Issues, and Resources Committees if it concerns the Chair of Council.
    23. Members have a duty to raise any concerns about compliance with this code with the Chair of Council and the Chief Executive at the earliest opportunity.
    24. Members have a duty to raise any concerns about compliance with charity or other legislation with the Chair of Council and the Chief Executive at the earliest opportunity. In the event that concerns still remain, members should report the matter to the Chair of the Audit and Risk Committee, who will report to the Audit and Risk Committee which may refer the matter to Council if required and, if appropriate, to the Charity Commission and the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator.

    http://www.gmc-uk.org/about/register_code_of_conduct.asp
  • schrodie
    schrodie Posts: 8,410 Forumite
    edited 25 May 2013 at 11:17AM
    With regard to the above post! I would suggest that the "rules" are that the assessor has to be able to justify their comments. They are supposed to follow the guidelines outlined in Medical Services Handbook.

    There have been many instances where the claimant at a WCA reported one thing and the atos person totally misrepresented what the claimant said on the report hence the strong advice to get ones WCA recorded and take along a friend and get a copy of the ESA85.

    At the start of the Physical descriptors section on the ESA50 it states:- "To answer Yes to any of the following questions, you must be able to do the activity safely, to an acceptable standard, as often as you need to and in a reasonable length of time". If this has been disregarded at the time of the WCA and when considering the evidence (if submitted) then protocols have been broken.
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