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Threadneedle American Smaller Cos.
JohnRo
Posts: 2,887 Forumite
Just a quick question, asking if anyone can work this out?
I've discussed with CS but as execution only they weren't prepared to go into any detail and suggest I contact Threadneedle, which I will do if needed.
http://www.trustnet.com/Factsheets/Factsheet.aspx?fundCode=ADASCG&univ=O&pagetype=overview
CS have two of these available
https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/InvestmentSearch/GetFundInformation?Sedol=0153045&Isin=GB0001530459&SelectedManagerIndex=0
https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/InvestmentSearch/GetFundInformation?Sedol=0153045&Isin=GB0001530459&SelectedManagerIndex=0
At first I assumed the "Z" and the "2" were just typos and a mix up since there is no "2" fund as far as I can tell looking at trustnet.
They didn't think so and when looking at the AMC and TER it gets even more confusing, the cheaper AMC of the Z fund has a much higher OCF and the higher AMC of the "2" fund has lower OCF.
To make things even more confusing still, the candid money platform comparison site shows CS having an OCF which matches neither...
I know it's probably better to just contact threadneedle but thought i'd ask anyway.
I've discussed with CS but as execution only they weren't prepared to go into any detail and suggest I contact Threadneedle, which I will do if needed.
http://www.trustnet.com/Factsheets/Factsheet.aspx?fundCode=ADASCG&univ=O&pagetype=overview
CS have two of these available
https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/InvestmentSearch/GetFundInformation?Sedol=0153045&Isin=GB0001530459&SelectedManagerIndex=0
https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/InvestmentSearch/GetFundInformation?Sedol=0153045&Isin=GB0001530459&SelectedManagerIndex=0
At first I assumed the "Z" and the "2" were just typos and a mix up since there is no "2" fund as far as I can tell looking at trustnet.
They didn't think so and when looking at the AMC and TER it gets even more confusing, the cheaper AMC of the Z fund has a much higher OCF and the higher AMC of the "2" fund has lower OCF.
To make things even more confusing still, the candid money platform comparison site shows CS having an OCF which matches neither...
I know it's probably better to just contact threadneedle but thought i'd ask anyway.
'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
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Comments
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Hi John, I was considering this American Small Cap fund as well and have it on my watch list at present.
Thanks.0 -
Yeah, I held the F&C fund until recently but I sold up and thought I might give this one a go instead. Still undecided though, similar performance and cost to hold, with F&C a tad cheaper to hold but no Acc version available on CS.
Still think charles stanley have made an "2" instead of "Z" error.
Threadneedle's own fund fact sheet shows the clean Z class as 0.75 AMC and 0.91 OCF so I'm just waiting for clarification from CS at the moment.'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB0 -
In case it makes a difference, the ISIN on HL is GB0001530129 (1.5% AMC), SEDOL 0153012.0
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Please let us know the response.
FWIW, I have a smallish proportion of Neptune US Opportunities. The sector analysis is completely different, though the recent performance is remarkably similar. You pays yer money..."Things are never so bad they can't be made worse" - Humphrey Bogart0 -
Looking at the security identifiers (Mex Code, ISIN or SEDOL), the one CS have called the "2" fund is alternatively known as "Threadneedle American Smaller Companies Institutional Acc". The "Z" fund is alternatively known as "Threadneedle American Smaller Companies ZNA".
On Threadneedles own factsheet, the Institutional Fund has an AMC of 1% and OCF of 1.08%. The Z fund has an AMC of 0.75% and OCF of 0.91%. This suggests Charles Stanley have got the OCF figure wrong on their website.0 -
i suspect CS (and trustnet) have the wrong OCF for "Z" class (perhaps because it's new). and that "2" is really the slightly more expensive "Inst".
"Z" (AMC 0.75%, OCF 0.91%)
SEDOL: B8358Z8
ISIN: GB00B8358Z89
https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/InvestmentSearch/GetFundInformation?Sedol=B8358Z8
http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F00000OU8O
"Inst" (AMC 1.00%, OCR 1.08%)
SEDOL: 0153045
ISIN: GB0001530459
https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/InvestmentSearch/GetFundInformation?Sedol=0153045
http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F0GBR04S6F
"Retail" (AMC 1.50%, OCR 1.72%)
SEDOL: 0153012
ISIN: GB0001530129
not on CS
http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F0GBR04RRX
more fund classes: http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/SecuritySearchResults.aspx?search=threadneedle%20american%20smaller&type=FUND
(EDIT: shaolin monkey got there 1st)0 -
confirms my suspicion, just a case of waiting for CS to fess up and fix it I guess.'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB0
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I have had out technical team look into this. Both funds are definitely separate; the “2” fund that you saw on our website is threadneedles “Inst” fund. However, I have had confirmation from our technical team that this should not be available on our website as it is not a clean share class. Therefore, we will now only offer the “Z” fund which is the clean share class.
Furthermore, there is also a pricing error on our website for the “Z” fund. We were showing an AMC of 0.75% and an OCF of 1.72% which is rather high. We have personally called threadneedle and they have confirmed that the OCF as of 31/03/12 is 0.93%. Therefore, if you chose to buy this fund on our website your OCF will be 0.93%. We are being fed the wrong price from our Reuters and we have reported this as an issue to be fixed. In the meantime, please ignore it.
Looking at the list of funds available when searching it seems like they've got this error on a great many of their fund offerings.'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB0
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