DWP invetigation into Mum's estate

Willowgill · 18 July 2012 at 3:59PM

Hi

My mum passed away on 10th June. I am executor of her estate along with the solicitor. The only assets she had at the time of death were her house which coincidentally was being sold at the time after 18 months of being up for sale and about £500 in her bank. She was 92, had been in care for 2.5 years with dementia and for the last six months had been NHS fully funded as needing 24 hour nursing care. Prior to that she had been 50/50 funded by the NHS and the other 50% accrued against the property after my father passed away in Aug 2010. After she became fully funded the debt against the property has been reducing on a monthly basis and has now been settled by the solicitor from the proceeds of the house. She had no income other than her pension and pension credit which was taken off her (apart from £20 a week 'pocket money') by the council for her care but today the DWP have issued a letter to the solicitor asking for details of the estate as they want to investigate to see if there are any benefit claims she shouldn't have had. I can't understand what they can be investigating - would she not have been entitled to pension credit in the care home? The solicitor told me that when an estate goes to probate (this went through very quickly and is now settled) the DWP randomly select cases to investigate and it can take several months to complete! This seems totally ridiculous in my mum's case - the whole estate is only worth £129k which was the sale of the property less the council charge against it. My two sons are due an inheritance from her will which we obviously can't distribute to them as well as a small legacy to a cousin. Would it be worth me ringing the DWP to try and find out what the investigation is for or would I be wasting my time?

mynameistallulah · 18 July 2012 at 4:05PM

This is a standard letter, it is not an investigation per se, but a brief check that no benefits have been overpaid. Nothing to worry about, but you/ the solicitor do need to complete the form and return it. Do not distribute the rest of the estate until you have confirmation that no monies are owed.

I am surprised that your solicitor did not tell you this - it is standard where a benefit claimant passes away.

missapril75 · 18 July 2012 at 4:17PM

Yes, it's normal.

When the DWP is notified of a death they register the total of the capital declared on the claim.

If the estate turns out to be more than that amount they have to check and see what the additional capital was.

The most common reason is the value of the home lived in and, as that is disregarded for benefit purposes, there is no effect on benefits.

This comes up so regularly, there ought to be some sort of "notice" or " "sticky" displayed.

Willowgill · 19 July 2012 at 2:53PM

Thanks for your replies. The solicitor is filling in the form so that's not a problem - he didn't say it was standard for every probate just that they randomly select those they think need looking at. If this is the case we can probably expect the same thing when my father in law's property sale goes through as he passed away 2 months before my mum, although probate went through for his estate about a month before Mum's so maybe they're not going to check it. We just need closure on both now after several months of trauma!

Willowgill · 21 November 2012 at 1:05PM

Hi

It's been some time since we started this case which was just before the 30th Sept deadline. I have sent all the information to the PCT and had several response letters but today I have just received a phone call from the Retrospective Review team who has just been handed the case yesterday. She has advised me that if they look into my Mum's case there is a possibility that they might find her nursing needs were outweighed by her social needs at the time of hospital discharge into care and that we may have to repay some of the funding she received (below are the details of her situation). My mum passed away in June, her estate has been finalized and distributed - who would they reclaim the money from and how could they enforce it? Surely this is more a case of blackmail to stop us pursuing the case - the lady I spoke to said she had been advised to call me by the original person I sent the information to. It seems Mum's case is unusual in that she had 50% from the NHS - it is this they are saying might have been wrongly assessed and we could be liable for. The letter and the initial review both state clearly that she had some nursing needs and some social needs so I don't see how they can now rescind that. Has anyone else had experience of this and had to repay money from a deceased relative? I am now wondering whether to pursue the claim or not.
WG

Willowgill wrote: »

Hi

My mum passed away on 10th June. I am executor of her estate along with the solicitor. The only assets she had at the time of death were her house which coincidentally was being sold at the time after 18 months of being up for sale and about £500 in her bank. She was 92, had been in care for 2.5 years with dementia and for the last six months had been NHS fully funded as needing 24 hour nursing care. Prior to that she had been 50/50 funded by the NHS and the other 50% accrued against the property after my father passed away in Aug 2010. After she became fully funded the debt against the property has been reducing on a monthly basis and has now been settled by the solicitor from the proceeds of the house. She had no income other than her pension and pension credit which was taken off her (apart from £20 a week 'pocket money') by the council for her care but today the DWP have issued a letter to the solicitor asking for details of the estate as they want to investigate to see if there are any benefit claims she shouldn't have had. I can't understand what they can be investigating - would she not have been entitled to pension credit in the care home? The solicitor told me that when an estate goes to probate (this went through very quickly and is now settled) the DWP randomly select cases to investigate and it can take several months to complete! This seems totally ridiculous in my mum's case - the whole estate is only worth £129k which was the sale of the property less the council charge against it. My two sons are due an inheritance from her will which we obviously can't distribute to them as well as a small legacy to a cousin. Would it be worth me ringing the DWP to try and find out what the investigation is for or would I be wasting my time?

rogerblack · 21 November 2012 at 1:24PM

Willowgill wrote: »

there is a possibility that they might find her nursing needs were outweighed by her social needs at the time of hospital discharge into care and that we may have to repay some of the funding she received (below are the details of her situation). My mum passed away in June, her estate has been finalized and distributed - who would they reclaim the money from and how could they enforce it?

As I understand it, it would be reclaimed from the estate.
As the executor, you may be personally liable, if you cannot recover the distributed money.

I don't know what you're referring to about 'pursue this case' - I assume it's attempting to reclaim care costs.
In general, any reterospective decision on a benefits matter can do anything the original person making the decision could.
So, it could be decided that she was entitled to no funding from the NHS, or that she should bear the full cost.
You can't pick and choose, and say 'I want you to look again at the case, and only change the decision if it's advantageous to me'.

If she has passed on, that would be reclaimed from her estate, and as the executor, you.

It's not blackmail as such, just putting you on notice as to a possible outcome.

If the case is strong, and perhaps getting professional advice is a good idea - then it may be worth pursuing.

xylophone · 21 November 2012 at 1:31PM

her estate has been finalized and distributed

Should this have been done before you/the solicitor received confirmation that the DWP was content? (Post 2)

Willowgill · 21 November 2012 at 2:00PM

Xylophone the solicitor did wait for the DWP to confirm they had no claim on the estate before distribution which was early Oct.

Rogerblack - understand what you're saying but equally I don't see how my mum can have had 3 assessments each of which said she needed nursing care and been awarded it only for them now to say we made a mistake and want it back. The deterioration in both her physical and mental health in those documents is evident to see - perhaps with hindsight I should have contested the one prior to her receiving full funding last year but we were in the midst of caring full time for my father who also had dementia as well as trying to work full time and I'm afraid I let it go. Maybe some legal advise might be an idea before we go any further.

Thanks

clemmatis · 21 November 2012 at 2:28PM

Willowgill wrote: »

It seems Mum's case is unusual in that she had 50% from the NHS - it is this they are saying might have been wrongly assessed and we could be liable for. The letter and the initial review both state clearly that she had some nursing needs and some social needs so I don't see how they can now rescind that. Has anyone else had experience of this and had to repay money from a deceased relative? I am now wondering whether to pursue the claim or not.
WG

It is unusual -- IMO. It's normally -- if it's agreed that nursing care is needed -- this

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/what-is-nhs-funded-nursing-care.aspx

or the full funding she eventually received.

I suggest you talk to an expert on this before hiring a lawyer (unless you get a lawyer who specialises in nursing home fees cases). Have you talked to AgeUK?

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/

DWP invetigation into Mum's estate

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