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  • FIRST POST
    caveman38
    Abbey / Santander Deedsafe
    • #1
    • 18th May 12, 6:09 PM
    Abbey / Santander Deedsafe 18th May 12 at 6:09 PM
    As Santander woes have reared their ugly head. It has reminded me that I have not had a letter / end of year account from Santander to confirm that they are holding my deeds in the deedsafe scheme.
    Since 1994 - when I paid up my mortgage - I have received annually a confirmation letter. It appears that since 2008, I have not received one. I assume that it coincides with the takeover by Santander.
    Does anyone know if they still hold my deeds but do not send out annual letters or is someone else now involved with old deeds that I need to contact. Thanks.
Page 1
  • sammyjammy
    • #2
    • 19th May 12, 10:25 AM
    • #2
    • 19th May 12, 10:25 AM
    There is no longer a requirement to keep paper copies of deeds, they are held on a central computerised database. I would imagine thats why they've stopped sending you confirmation as it costs them money. Ring them up and ask them to let you have your deeds back if you want them. Mine go back to 1898 and of historical interest but nothing else, they were sent to me by my mortgage company years ago.
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
  • Peckle
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 12, 10:48 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 12, 10:48 AM
    Just posting this as a warning to anyone who fully paid their mortgage with Abbey National in the 1980's and opted to have the deeds retained in their Deedsafe scheme.

    Earlier this year I moved my elderly mother into a Retirement Flat - I am fortunate that my circumstances are such that I was able to purchase this outright for her, making the downsizing and subsequent sale of her own (empty)house much easier.

    With Mum's permission, I handled all the negotiations and paperwork relating to the sale of her old house. Completion was yesterday. Our solicitor rang me first thing, to state that the Buyers' Solicitor had alerted him that Land Registry were stating that there was still a charge on the property. Fortunately as we were the end of the 'chain', completion was allowed to proceed, on the basis that no funds will be released to my mother until the matter is resolved. Our solicitor contacted Santander who cannot find the files or any details and are asking for us to provide account information etc before any action can be taken to remove the charge and release the funds.

    Fortunately when clearing Mum's property I discovered vast collections of files - and have found the documentation relating to the final mortgage payments in 1986. Unbeknown to me, my late father took the option to enter the deedsafe scheme - which I now understand, entails leaving the mortage 50p in arrears. As the deeds were retained by Abbey National, we were unaware that this charge remained on the property and the mortgage had not been cleared.

    Fortunately, the money from the sale of the property is not needed immediately - however if this situation had occurred in the middle of a chain, I dread to think what could have happened.

    I am interested to find out how quickly Santander will resolve this matter, once I send the details to my solicitor on Monday morning.

    I am also intrigued to know - given the situation - if our solicitor should have picked this up earlier, and should have double checked that there were no charges on the property. He was informed that the Deeds were in the Deedsafe scheme, as my mother still pays an annual charge for the service.
  • Thrugelmir
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 12, 12:43 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 12, 12:43 PM
    I am also intrigued to know - given the situation - if our solicitor should have picked this up earlier, and should have double checked that there were no charges on the property.
    Originally posted by Peckle
    You would have thought this to be a basic check as part of the selling process.
    "Recent research from the agency ESRO, on behalf of the FCA to underpin its thematic review of mortgage advice, would tend to suggest that short-termism is still a predominant feature in consumer thinking.
    "
  • murphydavid
    • #5
    • 19th Nov 12, 12:33 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Nov 12, 12:33 PM
    I also joined there Deedsafe scheme back then and after chasing Santander for some time; their complaints department have just informed me that they have my deeds safe and have given me an account number for them and have said that nothing has changed in the take over except they no longer send out yearly letters. I found this a bit inadequate and somewhat unsettling so I googled "santander deedsafe" and found your post.
    I also will have a 50 pence charge outstanding. I have no need for my deeds in the immediate future but I am left wondering if I should take some further action. Peckle I would be grateful if you could post details of the final outcome when resolved and in particular if you discover how significant the outstanding 50p is.
  • kingstreet
    • #6
    • 19th Nov 12, 12:49 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Nov 12, 12:49 PM
    If the original mortgage contained a deeds release fee, the charge over the property would not be lifted until the fee was paid when the mortgage is settled in full.

    As registered land is now transferred on a simple LandReg form, the deeds pack is only of historical interest, unless the property is leasehold or there is other information retained there, such as guarantees for works carried out on the property.

    I have mine and I'd not leave them with a lender these days.
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Please do not send PMs asking for one-on-one-advice, or representation
  • Peckle
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 13, 9:36 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 13, 9:36 PM
    .... I googled "santander deedsafe" and found your post.
    I also will have a 50 pence charge outstanding. I have no need for my deeds in the immediate future but I am left wondering if I should take some further action. Peckle I would be grateful if you could post details of the final outcome when resolved and in particular if you discover how significant the outstanding 50p is.
    Originally posted by murphydavid
    So sorry not to have replied earlier.

    As I originally posted, the completion was due to take place on the Friday - but due to the Santander problem, the money resulting from the sale could not be released.
    During the weekend I emailed the solicitor with the original account/mortgage refs and anything else I could think may be useful for Santander to locate the account.
    On the Monday morning I received the following from my solicitor:
    'I am pleased to confirm that I have today received confirmation from Santander that there is a nil balance on your Mothers mortgage account'
    The proceeds of the sale were immediately paid into my mothers account with no apparent 50p deduction. With hindsight, I got the distinct impression that it was less to do with the '50p' and more to do with Santander having problems in locating old A/National accounts.
    In your position I would request return of your deeds. Paper deeds are no longer needed, but if retention of them by Santander means a 50p outstanding charge on the mortgage or alternatively, an inability to locate old files means that Santander (where they have held deeds after redemption)cannot confirm that a mortgage has been redeemed in full - it could cause problems for you, at a later date.
  • basill
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 13, 9:43 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 13, 9:43 PM
    When we paid the last of the mortgage off we did not receive our deeds back, when we questioned this we were told the lender had destroyed them as paper copies were no longer required.

    Rather sad, it would have been nice to have them anyway.

    B
  • murphydavid
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 13, 10:25 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 13, 10:25 AM
    Thanks for the reply.
    I did requested the return of my deeds and offered them the 50p and they have returned them free of charge and removed all outstanding charges.
  • murphydavid
    As I have been asked. The letter that produced the results was as follows. Obviously you can't use my complaint ticket number.

    My name and address etc
    Santander, Image & Document Centre,
    Carlton Park,
    Narborough,
    LE19 0AL

    Reference Account Number: Deed Safe ????????
    Property owners name

    If I have addressed this letter to the wrong location please forward it as soon as you can to the location that deals with Santander (or Abbey) Deed Safe Scheme. If you do not know the location of Santander Deed Safe Scheme. Then please forward it to Ann Hallet, Customer Resolutions Officer at Complaints PO Box 1125BradfordBD1 9PG (reference AH/CR/1405192). I insert this because I cannot find the address of Deed Safe on your web site and Ann Hallet has information relating.
    Thank you

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Reference Account Number: Deed Safe ??????
    Property owners name

    My mortgage documents relating to the above address are lodged in your deed safe scheme and the mortgage itself (as per the rules of the Deed Safe Scheme) has an outstanding unpaid balance of 0.50 (50 pence). I now wish to leave the Deed Safe Scheme; redeem my mortgage in full; have all outstanding charges removed from the land registry records; have my deeds returned to me together with documents confirming that my Mortgage is fully redeemed.
    Please arrange this.
    I realise there will be a formalised process and forms to fill in so it may take some time to set in motion. However I would be most grateful if you will have the courtesy to acknowledge receipt of this letter and give me an idea of how long it will be before you are able to send me the instructions; forms etc.
    I only say this because In other recent communications I have had with Santander no acknowledgements were sent, which after 6 weeks wait resulted in me complaining, and I would be most grateful if we could avoid that this time. Thank you.

    Yours Sincerely
  • Marmaduke123
    Sorry to revive this old thread, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the very useful information.

    We recently applied to open a Santander 123 account, and although it was opened immediately I was required to provide ID as "some of the information I had provided was discrepant with the information they had on me as an existing customer"

    We were very puzzled at first as we have no other accounts with Santander, then we remembered the Abbey Deed Safe Scheme and the 50p outstanding on the mortgage! I had answered no to the question about other accounts on the application form for the 123 account. Because of this thread we checked with the Land Registry, and found that Santander is indeed currently recorded as having an interest in the property.

    I don't know whether this would ever have caused a problem, but we have now written to them along the lines of murphydavid's letter, and expect to have reference to Santander removed from the Land Registry records in due course.
  • Coys
    Another thread resurrection, but it comes top if anyone searches (as I did) as we wanted the Land Registry charge removed. I spoke to a very helpful lady at the Santander mortgage centre.

    She said you just need to write to Santander, Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4GB and ask for the deeds. If it was a joint mortgage then both need to sign the letter.

    There is no fee for retrieving the deeds (ISTR Abbey would have charged some 50 or 100) and they waive the outstanding 50p too. They notify the Land Registry to update their records. She did say it can take 6-8 weeks.
  • magpiecottage
    A small word of advice. The real deeds may have details that are not merely of historical interest but, if the Land Registry does not have a scanned copy, could be of legal significance in the event of a disagreement with your neighbours.
    Apparently telling somebody you are an IFA or mortgage adviser in your signature is not advertising and permitted. Telling somebody you are a compliance consultant and complaint investigator is advertising and not permitted - even if there is no indication of how to get in touch. So I am not going to tell you that I am!
  • Marmaduke123
    We had to write twice to Sandander to get our deeds back. The first letter produced no response at all, obviously sent to the wrong place and no-one did anything about it.

    This is the address which produced a fairly quick result:

    Santander Deeds Services
    101 Midsummer Boulevard
    Milton Keynes
    MK9 1AA


    We got our deeds back in less than 4weeks, and also a letter from the Land Registry to say the reference to Santander had been removed from their records. No charge, we paid something like 50 originally to have the deeds stored.


    Thanks for the hint magpiecottage, we are keeping the deeds safe!
  • Kess
    I just phoned Santander on the number (0845 716 5905) in my most recent Abbey Deedsafe letter from 2009 and spoke to a very helpful lady who confirmed that there was still a 50p charge on my mortgage account but that it would be waived and my deeds released and sent to me in 4-6 weeks.

    So it's very straightforward, but obviously takes time and needs to be done well in advance of any house sale.
  • irishlil
    Hi
    I've been told Santandar today that as we have a mortgage taken out in Scotland, we would need to engage a lawyer to retrieve our deeds from Deedsafe.

    Does anyone know anything about this?
  • murphydavid
    Hi
    I've been told Santandar today that as we have a mortgage taken out in Scotland, we would need to engage a lawyer to retrieve our deeds from Deedsafe.

    Does anyone know anything about this?
    Originally posted by irishlil
    As it is not compulsory to use a solicitor to register a title deed in Scotland see:
    http://www.ros.gov.uk/customerservices/registeradeed.html
    I would be surprised if this is correct.
    If it was me I would write to one of the Santandar addresses above and ask again. If you get the same responnce ask what they need a lawyer to do that you can't do yourself. Last resort is.
    http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/
  • Marmaduke123
    Just write and ask for the return of your deeds held in Deedsafe and the removal of the reference to Santander on the Land Registry records.

    Provide your mortgage number which should be on Deedsafe letters and information, and make sure you both sign the letter. There was no other process to be gone through or forms to be completed.
  • irishlil
    Hi
    People in Scotland and Northern Ireland do have to engage a solicitor to get the deeds back from the Deedsafe as I was told on the phone from Santandar, before I wrote to them. I've just received a reply to my letter asking for the deeds and was asked for the name of the solicitor we'd be using.
  • Marmaduke123
    Sorry to hear this! Did you originally pay the fee which was meant to cover all future legal expenses? From memory it was something like 50 or 60. Oh, and was your mortgage with Abbey National, or was it with a different mortgage company which Santander also took over?
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