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getting finished on ill health grounds
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# 1
mimi15
Old 20-10-2011, 5:07 PM
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Default getting finished on ill health grounds

just wanted to know anyone can help me.ive workaed for 11years in same company but been off sick for the last three.work sked me did i want to give my notice in i said no.only that i write to them they wouldnt keep in touch with me,i have had only 2 welfare meetings which i asked for they asked for my medical reports and last year they asked for updated medical reports,they said in the unlikely hood i would not be able to return they would finish me on health grounds and would invite me in when they received my medical reports. i never heard no more so i write to them to ask what the outcome was going to be and they have not replied,im told they probably dont want to pay me off and this is why they choose to ignore me what else can i do.thankyou for looking at this.
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# 2
McKneff
Old 20-10-2011, 5:21 PM
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You'll just have to be patient and wait for their decision.

What do you mean 'they wont want to pay me off' if they finished you on health grounds you would
only be entitled to your sick pay (presumably what you are getting now) to your end of employment and any accrued holiday pay.
So it wouldnt be particularly beneficial to them to finish you or not.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
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# 3
citykid5
Old 20-10-2011, 5:24 PM
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and possibly 11 pay in lue of notice? are you in a company pension scheme?
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# 4
McKneff
Old 20-10-2011, 5:27 PM
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But if heshe is off sick for his notice period, surely only sick pay would be payable

On second thoughts, I may be wrong, Im quite happy to be corrected. Sorry
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent

Last edited by McKneff; 20-10-2011 at 6:39 PM.
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# 5
de1amo
Old 20-10-2011, 5:31 PM
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i was pensioned off at 37 due to sickness. if that is what the op means?? looking back my biggest regret was not buying AVCs to top my pension years up before they sent me on my way-i would research and join the union
mfw'11 No68- 55k mortgage İO--little to nothing saved! i must do better.

Last edited by de1amo; 20-10-2011 at 5:35 PM.
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# 6
wellused
Old 20-10-2011, 7:14 PM
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3 years on the sick is a long time I'm surprised that they haven't terminated your contract before now, the company I work for a quite lenient on that sort of thing but have terminated employees contracts after much less time than that if it looks like the person wouldn't be able to preform their jobs due to health issues.
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# 7
Uncertain
Old 20-10-2011, 8:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McKneff View Post
But if heshe is off sick for his notice period, surely only sick pay would be payable

On second thoughts, I may be wrong, Im quite happy to be corrected. Sorry
If he is off sick when they issue notice they would have to pay him his full wage for the notice period.

He would also have accrued a substantial amount of holiday, assuming he has not taken it in order to receive full pay for those weeks. You cannot lose holiday due to normal carry over rules whilst off sick.
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Last edited by Uncertain; 20-10-2011 at 8:45 PM.
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# 8
Uncertain
Old 20-10-2011, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellused View Post
3 years on the sick is a long time I'm surprised that they haven't terminated your contract before now, the company I work for a quite lenient on that sort of thing but have terminated employees contracts after much less time than that if it looks like the person wouldn't be able to preform their jobs due to health issues.
I agree this is surprising. In the past, some companies would just let these things drag on and leave somebody who was obviously never going to be able to return on the books as it cost then nothing and seemed "kinder".

However, due to the "Stringer" ruling it now costs them at least 28 days pay per year for the holiday that keeps accruing. The don't actually have to pay until the employment is terminated either by dismissal or resignation.

It may be the firm don't realise this (although it has been well publicised) but they may have caught a cold!
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# 9
SarEl
Old 20-10-2011, 8:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncertain View Post
If he is off sick when they issue notice they would have to pay him his full wage for the notice period. Provided that statutory notice is at least a week more than contractual notice - otherwise you get nothing!

He would also have accrued a substantial amount of holiday, assuming he has not taken it in order to receive full pay for those weeks. You cannot lose statutory holiday due to normal carry over rules whilst off sick.
Ain't the law wonderful?
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# 10
getmore4less
Old 20-10-2011, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarEl View Post
Provided that statutory notice is at least a week more than contractual notice - otherwise you get nothing!

Ain't the law wonderful?
the 87 wording is

(4)This section does not apply in relation to a notice given by the employer or the employee if the notice to be given by the employer to terminate the contract must be at least one week more than the notice required by section 86(1).

I think that is the other way round

you get nothing if the employer notice is 1 week or more than the contractual statutory notice.

Last edited by getmore4less; 20-10-2011 at 9:45 PM.
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# 11
SarEl
Old 20-10-2011, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getmore4less View Post
the 87 wording is

(4)This section does not apply in relation to a notice given by the employer or the employee if the notice to be given by the employer to terminate the contract must be at least one week more than the notice required by section 86(1).

I think that is the other way round

you get nothing if the employer notice is 1 week or more than the contractual notice.
No - I admit I didn't express it well but it is the statutory notice that is the measure. If the employers statutory notice is one week or more than contractual notice you get it - if it isn't you don't. So in this case assuming the OP has completed 11 years service, if the contractual notice is ten week or less, then notice must be paid. If it is 13 weeks it doesn't. Which I think was what you were trying to say - didn't you mean "statutory" and not "contractual"?
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# 12
getmore4less
Old 20-10-2011, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarEl View Post
No - I admit I didn't express it well but it is the statutory notice that is the measure. If the employers statutory notice is one week or more than contractual notice you get it - if it isn't you don't. So in this case assuming the OP has completed 11 years service, if the contractual notice is ten week or less, then notice must be paid. If it is 13 weeks it doesn't. Which I think was what you were trying to say - didn't you mean "statutory" and not "contractual"?
Yes meant statutory so corrected, ,

Still think the wording says if the contactual notice is a week or more than the statutory then the section does not apply so if they are equal then the pay is due
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# 13
getmore4less
Old 20-10-2011, 10:06 PM
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breaking it down

(4)This section does not apply in relation to a notice given by the employer or the employee (so the requirement to pay does not apply if) if the notice to be given by the employer to terminate the contract(contractual notice) must be at least one week more than the notice required by section 86(1)(statutory notice).
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# 14
de1amo
Old 21-10-2011, 5:20 PM
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i am long time retired due to sickness. The company took 3 years to decide on my 'expulsion'. in that time i accrued 19 weeks holiday and gained pension years--i worked for the firm for 20 years and they retired me with 34 years pension--still not sure what the OP is asking!
mfw'11 No68- 55k mortgage İO--little to nothing saved! i must do better.
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# 15
moneybuster
Old 23-10-2011, 2:07 PM
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yes my firm took 3 years to pension me off, i got full amount for ill health right up to 65 years, final salary scheme, even the pensions dept don't like giving out pensions even when you meet the scheme rules if the pensions doctor is not convinced you can not work again anywhere then you have to wait,

gained 3 years pension and added lump sum but you have to hang on in there at the beginning.

the only certain applications are death in service, and terminal illnesses.


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# 16
hilstep2000
Old 23-10-2011, 3:26 PM
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I have MS. Worked for the local council as a teaching assistant. I hung on till retired on medical grounds. Got 11 weeks lieu of notice, and my pension payable from the day I left. Including a lump sum. DON'T RESIGN! Just stay on the sick till they get rid of you. Don't go to meetings either. I sent a letter to my Head saying "If I was well enough to come to a meeting, I'd be well enough to come to work". They came out to me at home. Hope this gives you the courage to stick with it. All the best. x
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# 17
pinklady21
Old 27-10-2011, 4:52 PM
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The reason the OP is still employed, rather than having been 'terminated' might be to do with other contractual benefits they have.
My understanding is that, in essence, the employer would have to compensate the employee for the loss of any contractual benefits if they were to terminate the employment contract.
For example, Permanent Health Insurance might be payable, and the employee would be entitled to sue for the loss of benefits she would have received had the employment contract not been terminated.

Very interested to hear other folk's stories about being pensioned off due to ill health.
How did you persuade your employer to do this?

I have been unable to work for illness for a number of years. Fortunately I do qualify for PHI, but the ongoing stress of medical reviews / possible surveillance activity / bullying tactics by the insurer etc etc is quite intolerable at times.

I suppose my chances of getting my employer to pension me off are quite slim, given that at the moment, the insurer pays for me, rather than my employer.

As ever, interested to hear other people's experiences.
Kind regards
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# 18
de1amo
Old 27-10-2011, 5:09 PM
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my ex company sent me to a private consultant of their choice and he wrote such a damning report of my illness in one so young and firmly laid the problem being caused by their work practices!- he supported me through the process and they medically retired me plus made a non-admission of fault payment of compensation.-- the illness was physical and recoverable but further down the road i suffered MH problems which would have necessitate pensioning off--
mfw'11 No68- 55k mortgage İO--little to nothing saved! i must do better.
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# 19
pinklady21
Old 28-10-2011, 5:01 PM
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Thanks for that Delamo - although sorry to hear you were so ill.

I am assuming that I have no right to 'demand' being pensioned off, I just have to wait it out and see if my employer is prepared to make me an offer.

The Insurer that pays the PHI has made offers to settle the claim, but never quite enough money to make it worthwhile. If only I could find some way to get my employer to add a wee bit to the pot and make me an offer I couldn't refuse!!
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