Calling Tesco

jonnyfgood · 17 September 2011 at 2:42PM

My wife called our local Tesco last week a few times to query some products, and used an 01 local number to get through. I am on a cable phone plan which means all 01 02 and 03 numbers are free for the first hour. However, I have just noticed on my cable bill that the number has come up as an 0845 and not an 01 number and as a result I have been charged somewhere between 30 and 40 pence a minute. How can this happen and is it legal?

Heinz · 17 September 2011 at 2:55PM

You're not alone.

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1310901185/0

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3406315&highlight=tesco

Virgin Media, who must be in dire financial difficulties to resort to such chicanery, have apparently deemed it appropriate to transpose calls to certain 01xxx and 02x numbers made by their customers into operator-connected calls to 0845 numbers and to charge grossly inflated prices.

They're alleging it's all Tesco's fault when, of course, it cannot possibly be so. If VM customers dial 01 or 02 numbers which are 'inclusive' in their call plans and for which they should not be charged, are charged for a completely different kind of call (operator-connected call to 0845 numbers), only VM can be responsible.

jonnyfgood · 17 September 2011 at 3:32PM

Thanks for the links Heinz, they made interesting reading.

I did phone VM after seeing the items on my bill but like other people on this site were told it was nothing to do with them, but down to Tesco.

My wife then phoned Tesco and all they would say is that the Local Number she used is not advertised on their website so it is not their problem we have been charged.......what?!!

My wife has phoned Tesco's on this local number numerous times in the past so I wouldn't be surprised if we've incurred at least £50 in charges over time. Not sure if its worthy of a call to Watchdog or Ofcom but its taught us a valuable lesson.

Heinz · 17 September 2011 at 4:40PM

AFAICS, the lesson is that Virgin Media has ripped you off. IMHO, it's bordering on fraud - how did a dialled call suddenly become an operator-connected call? Impossible.

If it's Tesco's fault, how come it's only Virgin Media doing this?

Ofcom won't be interested (they don't deal with 'individuals') so Watchdog's about your ony hope (or voting with your feet of course).

Buzby · 17 September 2011 at 6:59PM

As mentioned on the other thread, Virgin are charging what the interconnect partner charges them for delivering the call (Cable & Wireless). This does not excuse Virgin from charging the incorrect amount for the call that was dialled. Unfortunately, it is left to the customer to make sense of this, when the REAL issue is between Virgin and C&W.

The issues should be escalated to OFCOM, as Virgin's interpretation is incorrect, as is Tesco's, whether they publish the number of not - you are charged for the number you dial, not where it is diverted to.

jonnyfgood · 17 September 2011 at 7:05PM

I have just started out on the complaints procedure at VM, and will wait and see what kind of response they come up with. I imagine it will be some sort of standard automated response for this type of complaint.

I do have a direct dial number for someone in the managing directors office, who was very understanding last time I had an issue and couldn't do enough to help. I will probably go down that route again if I don't get a satisfactory response through the normal route.

My only concern is that it is an 01 number and it might get converted into an 0845 call!!!!

Actually I have just checked and it is an 0845 number. Aaaaagh!

System · 17 September 2011 at 8:22PM

jonnyfgood wrote: »

My wife has phoned Tesco's on this local number numerous times in the past so I wouldn't be surprised if we've incurred at least £50 in charges over time. Not sure if its worthy of a call to Watchdog or Ofcom but its taught us a valuable lesson.

As stated in the other threads, this is 100% a cockup by Virgin; it is nothing to do with Tesco, or Tesco's telecoms provider (Cable & Wireless, apparently).
If you do not get a rapid refund via Virgin's complaints procedure, plus adequate compensation for your annoyance and wasted time, my recommendation is to issue a Money Claim On Line for the false charges Virgin has made, plus compensation, plus the Court fee. Virgin do not have a shred of a defence: their purported charge is not in accordance with their contract with you, end of story.
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Buzby · 17 September 2011 at 10:06PM

YoungNick wrote: »

As stated in the other threads, this is 100% a cockup by Virgin; it is nothing to do with Tesco, or Tesco's telecoms provider (Cable & Wireless, apparently).

Don't let your inexperience in telecoms matters regarding interconnect charges let you mislead the OP. It is the Telecoms providers who control the interconnect charging (the cost to 'terminate' the call on a different network). It is C&W who is charging this, by re-routing the call and VM bill this on face value, in EXACTLY the same way a value-added call for service has the call passed back up the chain.

As for taking someone to court for 50p or whatever - please! Use a little common sense. You can cause grief to VM and C&W by complaining to the only organisation capable of resolving the issue for everyone. OFCOM. It flies in the face of transparency, and shows up C&W for mismanagement of the interconnect billing process.

As for it 'not being in their contract' - of course it is. They are allowed to charge for calls and pass on charges levied by other providers down the phone line. This is not a contract issue, but a tariff one. If the customer dials an 01 number, and it is charged as 0845, then VM are in the wrong - allbeit, because C&W are charging for the divert to the other number - which wll be delivered to another 01 number that isn't publicly known.

System · 17 September 2011 at 11:20PM

Buzby wrote: »

It is the Telecoms providers who control the interconnect charging (the cost to 'terminate' the call on a different network). It is C&W who is charging this, by re-routing the call and VM bill this on face value, in EXACTLY the same way a value-added call for service has the call passed back up the chain.

I disagree. The OP keyed 01. VM passed this call to 01 to the owner of the 01 number, apparently C&W. C&W is handling such calls under a (temporary?) arrangement between C&W and Tesco which is keeping live the historic honest numbers of Tesco stores. C&W's switch may have passed a message to VM's switch 'we are diverting this call' so that VM, if it wanted, could have played a message 'this call is being diverted'. However, it is not clear whether such calls are, technically, being diverted. C&W is, apparently, handling in the same way both calls to (some?) historic honest numbers, and calls to Tesco's advertised 0845 rip-off number. However, if the caller keyed 01, C&W can bill VM only for the agreed cost of terminating a call to 01, which is tiny. And, under the contract between VM and the OP, VM can bill the OP only its published charge for a call to 01, in this case zero.

The arrangement between C&W and its customer, Tesco, appears to be that C&W processes each call (whether to honest 01 or rip-off 0845), by presenting the caller with a 'press 1 for ...' menu, and then either playing an announcement about opening hours (etc), or routing it to staff in a call centre, or routing it to the mobile of someone in a Tesco store. The cost of all that is a matter solely between Tesco and C&W.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article4735906.ece

When people key the advertised 0845 number, C&W can and does charge a rip-off termination rate to the originating provider. If the originating provider is BT (and others), it absorbs this; if it's VM, it adds a rip-off markup, and passes the augmented rate to its customer. Meanwhile, C&W passes (some of) its profit on this 0845 rate back to Tesco, presumably as an offset from the cost of the ultimate termination of some calls at the mobiles of staff in the stores.

Nobody seems to have posted what VM charge to people who do call the 0845 number, but I hope it is merely VM's published and contractual rip-off rate for calls to 0845. On the other hand, when VM customers call a historic honest 01 or 02 number for a Tesco store, some silly, or possibly malevolent, bug in VM's billing system raises a charge which is even greater than VM's rip-off charge for 0845, and is falsely labelled an operator-connected call.

As for taking someone to court for 50p or whatever - please!

The OP said in post #3 that his losses total £50, not 50p.

the only organisation capable of resolving the issue for everyone. OFCOM.

Ofcom does not, in the first instance, respond to or act on complaints from individuals. It merely logs them.
http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/telecoms/

Ypaymore · 18 September 2011 at 1:05AM

jonnyfgood wrote: »

I have just started out on the complaints procedure at VM, and will wait and see what kind of response they come up with. I imagine it will be some sort of standard automated response for this type of complaint.

I do have a direct dial number for someone in the managing directors office, who was very understanding last time I had an issue and couldn't do enough to help. I will probably go down that route again if I don't get a satisfactory response through the normal route.

My only concern is that it is an 01 number and it might get converted into an 0845 call!!!!

Actually I have just checked and it is an 0845 number. Aaaaagh!

You could try posting on Virgin Media Help and Support Forum http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Telephone/bd-p/Telephone
and see if one of the online team can sort it for you.

Silent_Calls_Victim · 18 September 2011 at 11:29AM

It is for Money Saving Experts to each find their own way through this nonsense and pass on tips to others.

Readers are however welcome to note the action which I am taking, as reported in the parallel thread on SayNoTo0870.

VM is currently conducting a "high level" investigation into this matter, the outcome of which will be referred to when I provide Ofcom with a formal notification of this breach of General Conditions. When I have VM's considered position on this matter, I will also pass all of the details to the media.

I will be happy to share my case reference with anyone who wishes to associate their own case with mine.

If VM does not confirm that every case will be remedied when it proposes a resolution, it will be useful for Ofcom to know of as many as possible to support its formal investigation.

I invite all "victims" to contact me using the various means available. (Any personal information provided will be treated with appropriate discretion, as requested.)

Calling Tesco

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