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Changing planning permission for holiday cottages
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# 1
downshifter
Old 31-03-2011, 9:30 PM
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Default Changing planning permission for holiday cottages

Can someone advise me about the rules for letting holiday cottages as non-holiday lets? In the area where I live it's pretty easy to get planning permission for holiday lets but not for ordinary housing. Lots of people, in a burst of enthusiasm, converted barns, or chapels etc but subsequently found that running a holiday let is quite a tie and hard work so the places stand empty for much of the year.

We have a real need for affordable rentals especially to prevent young people moving away, however trying to get pp for year round rental is well nigh impossible and people are warned that it will never be possible to convert holiday rental permission to normal. It's a really stupid situation. Does anyone know of any really good arguments for being able to change the rules on holiday cottages, or do the authorities check up, and if so, how do they find out?

Makes me very angry so if there is a way of changing this, it would be really good to know. Thanks (and no, I don't own a holiday cottage, nor am I looking, but I am involved in the local community and know what the need is!)

Thanks very much

DS

Last edited by downshifter; 31-03-2011 at 9:32 PM.
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# 2
poppysarah
Old 31-03-2011, 9:39 PM
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Councillors and mps might help?
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# 3
gooner63
Old 31-03-2011, 9:43 PM
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Cornwall by any chance ???
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# 4
downshifter
Old 01-04-2011, 8:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooner63 View Post
Cornwall by any chance ???
No, Peak Park. It's just awful that this should be allowed to happen that young people can't afford to live in places like this yet little holiday cottages, perfect for a starter home, are allowed to stand empty. Properties are far too expensive to buy. Wish there was a way round it.
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# 5
poppysarah
Old 01-04-2011, 8:58 AM
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There was something on the local news a while back about how there were 6 kids left at a local school due to the number of holiday cottages.

it's got to be down to local planning regulations and you have to wonder why the powers that be don't do something about it.

It's always good to check the local MPs register of interest and see how many rental properties they have.
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# 6
downshifter
Old 01-04-2011, 9:05 AM
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That was probably at Flash - not a million miles from here and within Peak Park. The powers that be care more about retaining the beauty of the place for tourists than providing for the local families.

If anyone knows of a case where planning permission has been changed, that would be so good to know. Thanks
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# 7
poppysarah
Old 01-04-2011, 9:45 AM
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It def began with F but I could only think of Fleet and I didn't think that was right!

You could start by forming an action group - find out who is left local and who'd like to live local, and who needs to work locally...

You can probably do loads online organising, writing to MPs. Getting figures for number of people registered to vote in the area - how local government is affected (look up local election results etc for details of how many people votes/out of how many entitled - I assume the ward boundaries are huge)

One of the main factors has to be motivating people to vote at elections - standing at local level is free (Not sure if you're too late for this years elections though)
Get someone elected on the council who supports local people and see what can be achieved.

Making it a political thing - so every one canvassing and campaigining gets asked their views - and do a summary of official party policy on "local homes for local people" and publisise it as much as you can.
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# 8
mufi
Old 01-04-2011, 10:25 AM
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Here in Norfolk (North Norfolk District Council area), they've started to relax the ridiculous rules. A barn conversion complex, until recently all with permission for just holiday letting, has transformed into mostly residential use (with relevant permissions granted).

And not before time...
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# 9
Cyril
Old 01-04-2011, 10:30 AM
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Whose to say how long a holiday is ?

Is there something in the current approval that says you can only let for holidays of a fortnight or less etc.

Some people holiday in Spain over winter for 6 months but its still a holiday, same amount of time as a normal letting contract.
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# 10
flecker
Old 01-04-2011, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
Whose to say how long a holiday is ?

Is there something in the current approval that says you can only let for holidays of a fortnight or less etc.

Some people holiday in Spain over winter for 6 months but its still a holiday, same amount of time as a normal letting contract.
Yes, I think the rule is not more than 31 days per year to the same person.

Living in another area blighted by holiday lets, I strongly agree with the OP.

I'm wondering whether the budget announcements on planning will help the situation on holiday lets? The conversion from commercial (business, industrial and distribution/storage) to residential is to be made much easier, but I doubt whether holiday lets fall under the 'business' (B1) category at the moment?
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# 11
PasturesNew
Old 01-04-2011, 1:03 PM
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Some new builds where I live were built as holiday flats, but they couldn't sell them, so they put in a planning application to residential and some were passed for shared ownership. Still £65k for a 25% share of a small 1-bed flat, with HUGE service charges for the communal hot tub and 24 hour concierge.
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# 12
Pennylane
Old 01-04-2011, 3:15 PM
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There is another side to this - as with most things.

When people bought these places they paid LESS for them because they were only for holiday use and had restrictons on them.

They bought them knowing this full well but they seem to think rules don't apply to them and they can buy a property cheaply, get the local council to change their minds and let them live in it all year round. Their property is now worth a lot more and if they sell it they're quids in!
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# 13
downshifter
Old 01-04-2011, 3:23 PM
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Yes I can see that's true, but I would've thought it possible to put some sort of condition on the change of use permission, such as, not to be sold within 10 years, or for local people only or similar (there are a few properties around here with the latter restriction) Or perhaps they could be let to the local authority or other social landlord to ensure they are available to those most in need. Interesting to know this is happening in other parts of the country.

I did wonder about the relaxation of the rules on business premises, a hol cottage could be just that. It needs someone to put it to the test!

DS
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# 14
FOURCANDLES
Old 01-04-2011, 5:18 PM
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Well part of my business is holiday lets mine however are full but as you say farmer giles and co built holiday lets thinking it was all profit and they could pay mrs mop to get them ready at every turn around (mugs) little did they know we have no mrs mops any more and to actually rent them at an high enough volume they had to pay a large company such as ecc to do it, shock and horror not the gold mine they thought it was.
However 2 of my failed customers did go back to planning and ask to have them turned to residential use and no longer holiday lets the one customers wish was granted when he showed he had 2 punters for a year , the other customer was turned down. I do think planners etc are getting wise we had one local chap who built a holiday let with no intention of it being so, talk in the pub is he is going to ask for change of use the talk is also of a very public objection. Basically just put in the request and see how you get on.
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clutton
Old 01-04-2011, 10:24 PM
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planners know that it is a well known ploy of some farmers to ask for holiday let permission to convert barns, knowing that they will not run this business full time.... then after a year or two they can "prove" that they do not have the demand for a holiday let business and ask for a residential planning...

however... i was reliably informed recently that building regs for holiday cottages is not as stringent for holiday cottages... so they may not be as good a buy for full time residential as may be thought
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# 16
Running Horse
Old 02-04-2011, 5:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downshifter View Post
No, Peak Park. It's just awful that this should be allowed to happen that young people can't afford to live in places like this yet little holiday cottages, perfect for a starter home, are allowed to stand empty. Properties are far too expensive to buy. Wish there was a way round it.
Except those little cottages would never be sold to young couples. They would inevitably go to wealthier older pensioners moving in to the area.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-29420140.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-16210455.html

Even with a local occupancy clause, how many young families earn enough for places like these?
I want to die with a hand on my heart.

Last edited by Running Horse; 02-04-2011 at 7:17 AM.
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# 17
RAS
Old 02-04-2011, 3:39 PM
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This is an interesting development?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12941407
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# 18
downshifter
Old 02-04-2011, 4:03 PM
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Thanks. I wonder how they chose those particular areas?

We are in the process of developing a parish plan, though it would've been nice to have funding to do it! This sounds like the 'Planning for Real' schemes which have run in several places in the past.

Unfortunately it won't solve one problem we have, which is that all objections and comments are made public (rightly so), so neighbours won't formally object through the proper process as everyone will know it's them. What happens however, is that the chuntering goes on for years and years instead and village feuds go on for ever! So if one farmer applies for permission to convert his little field barn into a holiday let, no-one will openly object, they will just mutter behind hands and doors for ever after!

If this scheme gives ownership to local communities and involves and gives a say to everyone, then there may be less of the falling out.

My thinking behind this thread was that properties should be available for rent, not to buy, as has been said, the prices are beyond most young couples or single people. My home for example, is rented and I certainly couldn't afford to buy it.

DS
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# 19
Running Horse
Old 03-04-2011, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downshifter View Post
My thinking behind this thread was that properties should be available for rent, not to buy, as has been said, the prices are beyond most young couples or single people. My home for example, is rented and I certainly couldn't afford to buy it.
Having got change of planning permission, do you think these farmers will rent to young couples on low wages, or cash in their major asset?
I want to die with a hand on my heart.
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# 20
downshifter
Old 03-04-2011, 9:45 AM
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Depends on the conditions placed on the planning permission. Also, many that I know would be difficult to sell independently of the farm as they are joined on, or part of the farmyard, or in the middle of a field with no access that would allow them to be sold (no-one renting would mind shared access or through the farmyard etc)
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