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Buy or rent (cost comparison)

Particular property (1 bed flat) can be rented for £800 pcm.

Mortgage interest + service charge, for the same property, work out the same as rent (so £800 pcm).

Considering the initial cost of purchasing a property, maintenance costs, risk (house price slump, interest rate hike) & lack of flexibility (more difficult to downsize or move), renting is the optimal choice.

Would you agree?
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Comments

  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 16,028 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Bank of England interest rates currently 0.5%, all-time low. During my time of having mortgages the rate has been as high as 17% about 9 months after Thatcher came to power...

    As the Merkins say, Go figure!

    Cheers!

    Lodger
  • casper_g
    casper_g Posts: 1,110 Forumite
    On the face of it, you seem to be thinking along the right lines and buying doesn't look attractive.There are probably other factors to consider, e.g. the increased security of tenure if you buy, but unless you plan to make the 1-bed flat your "forever home" I'd probably come to the same conclusion as you.
  • Jowo_2
    Jowo_2 Posts: 8,308 Forumite
    Well, home ownership is more financially risky than renting, including the fact that there is more state support available to renters on with low incomes than home owners who hit a hard patch.

    But after 25 years of renting, the renter may have been made to move every 6 months through lack of security of tenure and experienced poor practices by landlords.

    While the successful homeowner will have an asset perhaps worth hundreds of thousands of pounds.
  • mostlycheerful
    mostlycheerful Posts: 3,486 Forumite
    edited 28 August 2010 at 6:40PM
    As buyers accumulate the bulk of their money and own an asset whereas renters spend all their money to enrich a landlord then it can be seen that owning is mostly superior to renting. Recently published figures suggest that in UK 68% own whereas only 32% rent so if these figures are correct then the majority of people in UK believe that owning is better than renting.

    After 25 years or so of paying a mortgage you can own a property worth £50k to £500k or even more. And you have the choice of either continuing to enjoy living in it, or you can rent it out and make a fortune for little or no effort, or you can release equity or downsize and liberate a lump of cash to spend on anything you want, or you can flog it and cash it in and then live off your capital without ever having to do a stroke of work again in your life, if you get it right.

    Whereas after 25 years of renting you own nothing and for the whole time you’re always subject to the vagaries and whims of a landlord and rent increases and eviction at any time.

    So would you rather have something or nothing? Would you prefer independent security to dependent insecurity? Would you rather have some mastery over your destiny or would you really be content to just be a bit of fluff being blown about and battered by the wind?

    Those who can mostly do own, it’s generally only those who can’t who end up in the often unsustainable dismal black hole of renting. Owning is a winning strategy, renting is pretty much just a losing strategy. Owning creates something durable and sustainable, renting just loses money down the drain and doesn’t create anything. Owning is forever, renting is temporary. Owning is freedom and mastery, renting is entrapment and slavery. Etc for another 10 pages…
  • As buyers accumulate the bulk of their money and own an asset whereas renters spend all their money to enrich a landlord then it can be seen that owning is mostly superior to renting. Recently published figures suggest that in UK 68% own whereas only 32% rent so if these figures are correct then the majority of people in UK believe that owning is better than renting.

    After 25 years or so of paying a mortgage you can own a property worth £50k to £500k or even more. And you have the choice of either continuing to enjoy living in it, or you can rent it out and make a fortune for little or no effort, or you can release equity or downsize and liberate a lump of cash to spend on anything you want, or you can flog it and cash it in and then live off your capital without ever having to do a stroke of work again in your life, if you get it right.

    Whereas after 25 years of renting you own nothing and for the whole time you’re always subject to the vagaries and whims of a landlord and rent increases and eviction at any time.

    So would you rather have something or nothing? Would you prefer independent security to dependent insecurity? Would you rather have some mastery over your destiny or would you really be content to just be a bit of fluff being blown about and battered by the wind?

    Those who can mostly do own, it’s generally only those who can’t who end up in the often unsustainable dismal black hole of renting. Owning is a winning strategy, renting is pretty much just a losing strategy. Owning creates something durable and sustainable, renting just loses money down the drain and doesn’t create anything. Owning is forever, renting is temporary. Owning is freedom and mastery, renting is entrapment and slavery. Etc for another 10 pages…

    Completelty agree, honestly I cant believe how thick some people are on here who recommend renting over buying (for long term) as simply put as above you are building up the equity urself. To the OP youv highlighted the point perfectly, renting = same mortgage, so why wud you then draw the conclusion u want to rent?

    You have to live somewhere ur whole life so once a mortgage is paid off your living rent free, whereas if u rent ur always paying with nothing to show for it. Ppl talk abt maintanence costs, but these dont have to be tht big if you buy somehwere in good condition.

    Dont get me wrong short term renting is fine (im currently renting for 6 months as im on a short term work rotation) but given the choice most intelligent ppl wud buy every time.
  • milan_ns
    milan_ns Posts: 64 Forumite
    Those who can mostly do own, it’s generally only those who can’t who end up in the often unsustainable dismal black hole of renting. Owning is a winning strategy, renting is pretty much just a losing strategy. Owning creates something durable and sustainable, renting just loses money down the drain and doesn’t create anything. Owning is forever, renting is temporary. Owning is freedom and mastery, renting is entrapment and slavery. Etc for another 10 pages…
    Your post implies you haven't understood my question.

    Numbers for a 1-bed flat I fancy are as follows:
    - rent = £800pcm
    - interest only + service charge = £800pcm
    - repayment + service charge = £1035pcm

    As you can see, I can either rent and save £235 or buy and invest £235 into the flat ownership each month.

    Either way I end up with £235 (saved or invested).

    Buying is the clear winner only if you believe property prices will go up, rather than down.

    It's a double-edged sword. If this £155k flat goes up in value 10% I got me a tidy profit of £15.5k. But equally, if the value goes down 10% I lose £15.5k.

    On the other hand, my savings will earn some interest with virtually no risk. Renting also provides more flexibility (even if your LL turns out to be a crazy person - you can always move).
  • “Either way I end up with £235 (saved or invested).”

    No, with renting you end up with £235 saved, with buying you end up with £235 invested AND ALSO THE £800 ALSO INVESTED.

    And even if property prices drop a bit you’re not likely to lose any more than a maximum of 10% or 20% or 30% so you’ll still be massively quids in whereas with renting you lose all of the £800.

    Re price drops I’d be very surprised if in 15 or 25 or 35 years time if property has actually dropped in price from today’s figures. Well, yeah, if a global war has blown us up or a big asteroid has landed and wiped out most of the planet or temperatures have gone up 20C or a worldwide killer plague has broken out everywhere etc then all bets are off but in the absence of global catastrophe then property is likely to continue to do what it’s done for hundreds of years and very much so in the last fifty years and increase in value as time goes by.

    “Buying is the clear winner only if you believe property prices will go up, rather than down.”

    No, on the contrary, you’re not getting it. Rent is dead money down the drain, buying is accumulating your money. It doesn’t make any difference to this fact whether you spend more or less on either option and, no, it is not connected to whether property prices go up or down. Even if the value of a property goes down, you still end up owning a substantial asset worth lots if you buy it whereas if you spend your money on rent you waste it all and end up with nothing except an endless need to pay yet more rent with never any end in sight, plus the risk of being evicted at any time. Buying beats renting hands down 99% of the time.

    The only time buying is a loser is when you get a disaster which is mostly through bad luck or your own bad judgement, such as buying a duff property that’s falling down, or buying a place with subsidence or heave or dry rot etc, or buying a leasehold place and then the council hits you with a £70k Decent Homes bill for bogus work that you don’t need or want, or a lorry drives into it and knocks it down but you failed to do the insurance payments or your insurers refuse to pay out, or if you buy near a proposed new development and the council compulsorily buys you out but won’t give you proper market value, or travellers set up a camp next door and start burgling and mugging and attacking everyone etc. Yes, there are various bad events that afflict homeowners but they’re relatively rare and buying is mostly a win win situation which is why most people do it.

    Still not convinced? Ok, look around you at some people in their fifties and sixties and compare their lifestyles, quality of life and quality of properties of those who own with those who rent. You should quickly notice that most of the buyers tend to have relatively nice big places and a new or fairly new car or two parked up while the renters tend to have smaller places and either a cheap car or no car. The homeowners go on holiday twice a year to expensive destinations, the renters can’t afford to go away or if they do it’s to cheap places. Homeowners get a positive psychology of security and independence and being part of the world, renters have an underlying insecurity all the time and relatively speaking are often treated as being second class citizens pushed about from pillar to post.

    Still not convinced? Ok, here it is again, in 15 or 25 years time would you prefer to have and own a house worth £200,000 all paid for with no more mortgage to pay or would you prefer to own nothing and still be labouring away to pay £800 a month rent to a landlord for the rest of your life? I know which I’d prefer.
  • PasturesNew
    PasturesNew Posts: 70,698 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    In 1997 I arrived in a new town, and looked at flats.

    My salary in my new job was going to be £17,500, with a lot of overtime (that I didn't know at the time) that actually took it up to £26,000

    Pretty basic 1-bed flats I was being shown at the time were £250-300/month, I actually managed to find a rarity at £115/month though (self-contained with bedsitting room and kitchenette and shared bathroom).

    3-bed fairly new semis at the time were selling for £69-75k.

    Roll on 13 years and .... that same job in that same company is now paying £17,500 (I checked last year), with no overtime.

    1-bed flat rents are £500-600.

    Those same 3-bed houses are now £200-225k.
  • OP please read this study done by MoneyWeek a couple of years ago which the BBC also did a programme on.

    http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/property/the-great-british-property-myth-14052.aspx

    "it's absolutely not the case that buying is always better than renting. And renting isn't always dead money – it frees you from being tied to your property, regardless of market conditions, and also frees up your money to be invested somewhere more profitable."
  • milan_ns
    milan_ns Posts: 64 Forumite
    No, with renting you end up with £235 saved, with buying you end up with £235 invested AND ALSO THE £800 ALSO INVESTED.
    Whilst I do recognize some benefit in owning a property ("owning" being a bit misleading due to mortgage), it is clear that you do not understand the maths behind the problem:

    - Renting options: £800pcm "wasted" on rent AND £235 saved
    - Buying option: £800pcm "wasted" on interest & service charge AND £235 invested toward property ownership
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