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What to do about a deceased person's car?
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# 1
Mrs Money
Old 05-03-2010, 1:50 PM
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Default What to do about a deceased person's car?

Hi
not sure if this is the right place to post this problem...
DH's father has died and his car is in a parking space at the flats where he lived. After much difficulty we have found the papers relating to it (although not the registration doc).
We cannot sell the car yet as we are only just about to apply for Grant of Probate (could take 6 weeks or more) - he left a will and the car will be part of the estate.
The problem is, the insurance runs out in a couple of days and the MOT ran out today. It is taxed until September - so no worries there. MOT we can get done easily I suppose (except it would involve driving an uninsured car to the testers).
Is it possible to insure a car belonging to someone else? Just in the short -term til we got probate and then sell it? I guess the estate would have to bear the costs - but can it be done?
I'm a bit desperate for a solution - trying to take some of the stress off DH who is executor in a fairly complicated situation.
Thanks...
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# 2
margaretclare
Old 05-03-2010, 4:11 PM
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If the car is off the road and is not moving then you can make a SORN declaration: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...cle/DG_4022058

A phone call to the DVLA to explain the situation might be the best idea. You're not the registered keeper so speak to someone on the phone. You don't need to insure the car if it's not going to move. Have a word with someone at the insurance company.
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# 3
monkeyspanner
Old 05-03-2010, 4:19 PM
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How about this
http://quote.ecarinsurance.co.uk/Sho...rce=7&mpch=sem

Alternatively you could approach your FIL's car insurance company and ask them to extend. Normally if you then cancel they will repay any unused period.
You may also find that a garage may take the car if you have some paperwork prior to probate e.g. evidence of executor (will), death cert. and proof of ID. Or you could try webuyanycar or similar organisation. You may have problems with MOT as all information about insurance and MOT is now linked on an online system. You could also, if you have an offroad slot or garage to put the car, to make an offroad declaration to the DVLA and cash the road tax in, only full months can be refunded so you would have until the end of this month to look at this. You should also contact the DVLA to obtain a replacement reg document.
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# 4
monkeyspanner
Old 05-03-2010, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margaretclare View Post
If the car is off the road and is not moving then you can make a SORN declaration: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...cle/DG_4022058

A phone call to the DVLA to explain the situation might be the best idea. You're not the registered keeper so speak to someone on the phone. You don't need to insure the car if it's not going to move. Have a word with someone at the insurance company.
If the car is not insured then any damage it suffers whilst parked up would not be covered. The executor would then be liable for any losses suffered by the estate. Also you would need to check the status of the car park where the car is parked, if adopted then it would be highway so you would need insurance and could not declare a SORN (offroad), if a private car park then I am not sure if the executor could be liable for any 3rd party damage if for instance the car was torched.
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# 5
Mrs Money
Old 05-03-2010, 6:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyspanner View Post
If the car is not insured then any damage it suffers whilst parked up would not be covered. The executor would then be liable for any losses suffered by the estate. Also you would need to check the status of the car park where the car is parked, if adopted then it would be highway so you would need insurance and could not declare a SORN (offroad), if a private car park then I am not sure if the executor could be liable for any 3rd party damage if for instance the car was torched.
yes, this is exactly what I was thinking - we (probably) won't drive it (only to get an MOT) but there are risks of theft, or vandalism to consider - and it's a nice car. I don't think we'll bother about the road tax - a SORN may be even more complicated given we are not the named owners!
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# 6
Mrs Money
Old 05-03-2010, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margaretclare View Post
If the car is off the road and is not moving then you can make a SORN declaration: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...cle/DG_4022058

A phone call to the DVLA to explain the situation might be the best idea. You're not the registered keeper so speak to someone on the phone. You don't need to insure the car if it's not going to move. Have a word with someone at the insurance company.
Thanks, but road tax is not our worry yet- but I think we will contact the insurance company.
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# 7
mountainofdebt
Old 06-03-2010, 11:50 AM
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When my FIL died my SIL had his car straight away (with the agreement of my OH and executor) and the executor simply took the value of the car from her share of the estate.
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# 8
Newly retired
Old 06-03-2010, 6:24 PM
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When my dad died, my son drove it on his own insurance to a garage/dealer and sold it. I think its MOT was still valid. The car was not worth much- he got £1K for it which went straight into my parents' joint bank account. He had my mum's permission and since Dad left everything to her we certainly did not worry about probate. Mum was pleased as the car had been sitting in the garage for months as dad was too ill to drive
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# 9
clearvisor
Old 07-03-2010, 6:08 PM
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Talking Car probate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Money View Post
Hi
not sure if this is the right place to post this problem...
DH's father has died and his car is in a parking space at the flats where he lived. After much difficulty we have found the papers relating to it (although not the registration doc).
We cannot sell the car yet as we are only just about to apply for Grant of Probate (could take 6 weeks or more) - he left a will and the car will be part of the estate.
The problem is, the insurance runs out in a couple of days and the MOT ran out today. It is taxed until September - so no worries there. MOT we can get done easily I suppose (except it would involve driving an uninsured car to the testers).
Is it possible to insure a car belonging to someone else? Just in the short -term til we got probate and then sell it? I guess the estate would have to bear the costs - but can it be done?
I'm a bit desperate for a solution - trying to take some of the stress off DH who is executor in a fairly complicated situation.
Thanks...
If you have a car thats insured fully comp, you can drive it on yours
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# 10
JamesU
Old 07-03-2010, 7:19 PM
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DH's father has died and his car is in a parking space at the flats where he lived. After much difficulty we have found the papers relating to it (although not the registration doc).

I had this exact complex situation just over a year ago and it is difficult to sort out at such a stressful time so you have my sympathy. Some useful points given in the thread already and here goes on my side, and hope this helps with peace of mind and sorting out the problem when you can attend to this.

We cannot sell the car yet as we are only just about to apply for Grant of Probate (could take 6 weeks or more) - he left a will and the car will be part of the estate.

Yes you can definitely sell the car BEFORE sending off or receiving a grant of probate because the DVLA does not insist on a grant of probate before the car can be sold. If you want to, just give the DVLA a ring and they will confirm this.

And you obviously want to send off the grant of probate when you are ready irrespective of what is happening with the car, so for now just put the best estimated value of the car on the HMRC return of estate information form.

Hence things are a little easier already, and it is a question on how best to approach dealing with the car........

The problem is, the insurance runs out in a couple of days and the MOT ran out today.

Talk very nicely to the insurance company and ask if they will extend the insurance for a few weeks on the condition the car is only driven to a garage for sales purposes and MOT. They may grant a short extension which you pay for, especially if it is driven by a relative or executor/beneficiary. I managed to get a few weeks insurance and was sent a temporary insurance certificate from the exisiting insurer, it was with the AA who were very helpful and understanding, but it will only be for a few weeks and not indefinitely. Having the car in a safer location will also help if you mention this to the insurer and arrange this. The insurance issue is complicated not only because it is illegal to drive the car without insurance, but also because anybody driving the car on their insurance would not be insured anyway. Reason? because technically the car no longer has an owner or insurance and as such it cannot be driven by a driver on their third party insurance coverage.

It is taxed until September - so no worries there.

Fine, no problem provided the tax has been paid in full. But note it is illegal to sell the car with tax if the tax was provided free due to disability etc. In this instance you have to send the disc back to the DVLA. Car dealers know about this, but it would be a mistake to sell the car privately with disability tax.

MOT we can get done easily I suppose (except it would involve driving an uninsured car to the testers).

It is definitely good to get this done urgently before the insurance runs out if possible. Not too important if selling the car without MOT to a dealer, more important when trying to sell the car privately for the buyer's peace of mind. And in either case, having the MOT will probably pay for itself in terms of the value you can negotiate on the sale of the car.

Is it possible to insure a car belonging to someone else?

No, I do not think you will get far with this.

Just in the short -term til we got probate and then sell it? I guess the estate would have to bear the costs - but can it be done?

Sell the car when you are ready and able to do so, and send off the probate application when you are ready as discussed above. In any case keep the car somewhere safer, maybe a friend's/family drive or garage. And yes, as another has mentioned in the thread, if there is a beneficiary in the will who would like the car, provided the executor uses a realsitic market value for the car, the beneficiary can receive this after probate as part of any distributuon.

You cannot claim the costs of sorting out the car on the HMRC return of estate information form, because this was not a liability the individual had on the date of passing away. But yes of course, it is reasonable for the costs (any insurance/MOT/petol/valeting to get a good sale price etc) to be reimbursed by the executor of the will before any proceeds are distributed to the beneficiaries once the grant of probate has been obtained. Keep the receipts for this purpose.

I'm a bit desperate for a solution - trying to take some of the stress off DH who is executor in a fairly complicated situation.

Sale of the car (where grant of probate is NOT needed) and applying for probate are two seperate issues. Seperate them in your mind and try not to be too daunted by these at such a stressful time. They can be sorted seperately as discussed above and below.....

(i) Timewise, the most important critical thing to do is to temporarily extend the insurance on the exisiting car policy if possible to give you a bit of flexibility.

(ii) Move the car to a safer location.

(iii) MOT the car while it is still insured. You are allowed to drive the car to a garage for an MOT provided it is booked in advance of driving the car there, and the car is taxed and insured. Small price to pay for the benefit when the car is sold.

(iv) Retax the car if it has disability tax etc. Otherwise leave it as it is for any sale.

And finally, if you cannot extend the insurance in order to drive the car to garages for quotes for a sale, have car dealers or private buyers view the car where it is kept. Dealers will not be concerned if the car has no tax or MOT and will still purchase the car and take it away if they are interested. Private buyers will have a greater need for MOT and tax if you want an easy sale, a realistic price and so that they can drive it away after the purchase without complicated arrangements.

Hope this helps.

JamesU

I am not a financial or legal expert, the above is just my personal experience.
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# 11
JamesU
Old 07-03-2010, 7:33 PM
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Forgot, yes you should also contact DVLA for a new registration document as mentioned by another in the thread, probably executor best placed to request this.

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# 12
Hermann
Old 07-03-2010, 8:16 PM
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I believe the executor should not dispose of any assets until the will has been proven/probate granted. So probably not a good idea to sell it just yet!

FIL original insurers may well help you out by extending the cover, executor can reclaim cost from estate before distribution. Speak to them ASAP before cover lapses.
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# 13
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Old 08-03-2010, 1:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clearvisor View Post
If you have a car thats insured fully comp, you can drive it on yours
Not all insurers provide 3rd party cover on another car if you have fully comp insurance, so you should always check this before assuming it to be true!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
I believe the executor should not dispose of any assets until the will has been proven/probate granted. So probably not a good idea to sell it just yet!
Given that it may well take months and can take years to get probate, that's not realistic. We've been advised that we just have to value things.
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# 14
muskoka
Old 08-03-2010, 12:10 PM
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In respect of getting the MOT - Phone appropriate garage and ask them to collect the car on their Trade Plates - if garage collects on own trade plates, then I believe the MOT being expired will be ok? Also, would be covered on garage insurance if they collect and deliver back
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# 15
JamesU
Old 08-03-2010, 1:00 PM
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I believe the executor should not dispose of any assets until the will has been proven/probate granted.

The above is not correct. The executor is allowed to dispose of the car if there is a valid will and before grant of probate. Herman, your thoughts on this are mixing up two issues i.e. the executors role in executing the will and the executor’s role in obtaining a grant of probate. The executor has the right to distribute assets. The grant of probate simply gives additional authority in certain matters as required (e.g. sale of property where a grant of probate must be obtained, closure of savings and investments where the financial provider may or may not insist on a certificate of grant of probate before allowing the closure of accounts and transfer of any funds).

The executor has the right and responsibility to protect and distribute the assets according to the will and this includes how to deal with the car. Whether the car is sold or given to a beneficiary depends on discussion between the executor and beneficiaries and their agreed preferences. In the event that there is disagreement on this, yes I would agree with you that it would be wise not to sell the car at this point, but not because the “will has not been proven,” but because this would then be a dispute between the beneficiaries which would be a separate matter. On this thread the agreed approach appears to be to sell the car and if this is the case, the executor can go ahead and do it.

Mrs Money: There are no complications here. To reiterate:

(i) The DVLA allows the executor to sell the car ahead of probate. If in any doubt give the DVLA a ring and they will confirm this.

(ii) The executor is legally entitled to sell the car ahead of probate provided the beneficiaries are in agreement. If in any doubt give the probate helpline a ring and they will confirm this.

FIL original insurers may well help you out by extending the cover, executor can reclaim cost from estate before distribution. Speak to them ASAP before cover lapses.

Herman (and from others in the thread above), this is excellent advice. The insurance issue is the most important thing to resolve. However the insurance issues discussed on this thread are being mixed up leading to ambiguous views. To remove these ambiguities, to reiterate:

(iii) A driver with fully comprehensive insurance (and assuming the third party right to drive another vehicle) will still not be insured to drive the vehicle. Reasons? (a) because technically the car no longer has an owner or insurance and (b) the driver does not have the permission of the owner to drive it. Previously these are the obstacles that I faced with my car insurers (reputable insurer, fully comprehensive, third party on other vehicles). Any driver intending to drive the car should phone their insurers and the above will be the likely response.

(iv) Any driver who wants to drive the car on the existing insurance will not be insured because the driver is not covered on the driver’s policy (as in (iii) above) and is not covered on the existing car insurance. Reason? the driver does not have the permission of the owner to drive it, and in addition the owner can no longer give permission (passed away). Previously these are the obstacles that I faced with the existing car insurers (reputable insurer, fully comprehensive, third party on other vehicles). Any driver intending to drive the car should phone the exisitng insurers and the above will be the likely response.

Yes this does all sound quite ridiculous from a practical standpoint when all you want to do is pop the car over for an MOT, drive it to a garage(s) for sales purposes, drive it somewhere else for safe-keeping, drive it around the block to keep it running and in good order etc. As described above and by others on the thread the first solution is to ask the existing insurer for temporary cover using the genuine justifications discussed in my previous thread and there is a good chance they will agree to this (as in my case). If not, MonkeySpanner had made an excellent alternative suggestion and given a weblink to temporary car insurers and Muskoka has made a very practical alternative for getting the car Mot’d without insurance.

Mrs Money: Two unusually long threads from my side, just wanted to ensure you were able to move forwards on this without any ambiguity or doubts in your mind. There is also a lot of good advice from the contributors in the threads above. Yes a complex situation at a difficult time, but one that can be dealt with when you are ready to do so.

JamesU

PS: new to using this website and have not learnt "how to do the boxes yet" in my 2 threads, so the quotes from others are in bold instead.......

I am not a legal or financial expert, the comments are based on my personal experience.
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# 16
googler
Old 28-03-2010, 3:25 PM
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Use the 'Quote' button, which will quote (in a box) ALL of the post that you're quoting.

If you want shorten this, delete some of the text between the /QUOTE tags.

If you want to split it up into separate quotes, copy/paste more /QUOTE tags into the places where you want to split it, and type your own text inbetween. Note the difference between a start quote tag and an end quote tag.

For quoting multiple posts in your reply, quote one, then copy/paste each one from the reply window into Notepad or a similar text editor, then once you've assembled them, copy/paste back into the reply window.

Last edited by googler; 28-03-2010 at 3:33 PM.
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# 17
woodbine
Old 28-03-2010, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margaretclare View Post
If the car is off the road and is not moving then you can make a SORN declaration: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...cle/DG_4022058

A phone call to the DVLA to explain the situation might be the best idea. You're not the registered keeper so speak to someone on the phone. You don't need to insure the car if it's not going to move. Have a word with someone at the insurance company.
If its not insured and it gets nicked then you get nothing !!
but to the OP,my best bet would be to move it asp to your house if you have off road parking and then disable it so it cant be nicked
~~~JOHN~~~



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# 18
JamesU
Old 28-03-2010, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by googler View Post
Use the 'Quote' button, which will quote (in a box) ALL of the post that you're quoting.
Thanks Googler, I was fairly new to MSE when writing on the thread above but have since got the hang of things as you can see!

Quote:
If you want to split it up into separate quotes, copy/paste more /QUOTE tags into the places where you want to split it, and type your own text inbetween. Note the difference between a start quote tag and an end quote tag.
Yes fine.

Quote:
For quoting multiple posts in your reply, quote one, then copy/paste each one from the reply window into Notepad or a similar text editor, then once you've assembled them, copy/paste back into the reply window.
Thanks again.

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# 19
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Old 28-03-2010, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbine View Post
If its not insured and it gets nicked then you get nothing !!
but to the OP,my best bet would be to move it asp to your house if you have off road parking and then disable it so it cant be nicked
Woodbine, just to let you know I think this thread is finished, inactive for quite some time now.

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# 20
kickintheteeth
Old 30-03-2010, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesU View Post
DH's father has died and his car is in a parking space at the flats where he lived. After much difficulty we have found the papers relating to it (although not the registration doc).

I had this exact complex situation just over a year ago and it is difficult to sort out at such a stressful time so you have my sympathy. Some useful points given in the thread already and here goes on my side, and hope this helps with peace of mind and sorting out the problem when you can attend to this.

We cannot sell the car yet as we are only just about to apply for Grant of Probate (could take 6 weeks or more) - he left a will and the car will be part of the estate.

Yes you can definitely sell the car BEFORE sending off or receiving a grant of probate because the DVLA does not insist on a grant of probate before the car can be sold. If you want to, just give the DVLA a ring and they will confirm this.

And you obviously want to send off the grant of probate when you are ready irrespective of what is happening with the car, so for now just put the best estimated value of the car on the HMRC return of estate information form.

Hence things are a little easier already, and it is a question on how best to approach dealing with the car........

The problem is, the insurance runs out in a couple of days and the MOT ran out today.

Talk very nicely to the insurance company and ask if they will extend the insurance for a few weeks on the condition the car is only driven to a garage for sales purposes and MOT. They may grant a short extension which you pay for, especially if it is driven by a relative or executor/beneficiary. I managed to get a few weeks insurance and was sent a temporary insurance certificate from the exisiting insurer, it was with the AA who were very helpful and understanding, but it will only be for a few weeks and not indefinitely. Having the car in a safer location will also help if you mention this to the insurer and arrange this. The insurance issue is complicated not only because it is illegal to drive the car without insurance, but also because anybody driving the car on their insurance would not be insured anyway. Reason? because technically the car no longer has an owner or insurance and as such it cannot be driven by a driver on their third party insurance coverage.

It is taxed until September - so no worries there.

Fine, no problem provided the tax has been paid in full. But note it is illegal to sell the car with tax if the tax was provided free due to disability etc. In this instance you have to send the disc back to the DVLA. Car dealers know about this, but it would be a mistake to sell the car privately with disability tax.

MOT we can get done easily I suppose (except it would involve driving an uninsured car to the testers).

It is definitely good to get this done urgently before the insurance runs out if possible. Not too important if selling the car without MOT to a dealer, more important when trying to sell the car privately for the buyer's peace of mind. And in either case, having the MOT will probably pay for itself in terms of the value you can negotiate on the sale of the car.

Is it possible to insure a car belonging to someone else?

No, I do not think you will get far with this.

Just in the short -term til we got probate and then sell it? I guess the estate would have to bear the costs - but can it be done?

Sell the car when you are ready and able to do so, and send off the probate application when you are ready as discussed above. In any case keep the car somewhere safer, maybe a friend's/family drive or garage. And yes, as another has mentioned in the thread, if there is a beneficiary in the will who would like the car, provided the executor uses a realsitic market value for the car, the beneficiary can receive this after probate as part of any distributuon.

You cannot claim the costs of sorting out the car on the HMRC return of estate information form, because this was not a liability the individual had on the date of passing away. But yes of course, it is reasonable for the costs (any insurance/MOT/petol/valeting to get a good sale price etc) to be reimbursed by the executor of the will before any proceeds are distributed to the beneficiaries once the grant of probate has been obtained. Keep the receipts for this purpose.

I'm a bit desperate for a solution - trying to take some of the stress off DH who is executor in a fairly complicated situation.

Sale of the car (where grant of probate is NOT needed) and applying for probate are two seperate issues. Seperate them in your mind and try not to be too daunted by these at such a stressful time. They can be sorted seperately as discussed above and below.....

(i) Timewise, the most important critical thing to do is to temporarily extend the insurance on the exisiting car policy if possible to give you a bit of flexibility.

(ii) Move the car to a safer location.

(iii) MOT the car while it is still insured. You are allowed to drive the car to a garage for an MOT provided it is booked in advance of driving the car there, and the car is taxed and insured. Small price to pay for the benefit when the car is sold.

(iv) Retax the car if it has disability tax etc. Otherwise leave it as it is for any sale.

And finally, if you cannot extend the insurance in order to drive the car to garages for quotes for a sale, have car dealers or private buyers view the car where it is kept. Dealers will not be concerned if the car has no tax or MOT and will still purchase the car and take it away if they are interested. Private buyers will have a greater need for MOT and tax if you want an easy sale, a realistic price and so that they can drive it away after the purchase without complicated arrangements.

Hope this helps.

JamesU

I am not a financial or legal expert, the above is just my personal experience.
yes, just think of the value of the car
how much is it worth (roughly)
this it all that probate will need
that is if you are sure you will inheiret the car
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