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Written out of my father's will - so sad!
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# 1
far2812
Old 26-09-2009, 5:08 PM
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Default Written out of my father's will - so sad!

Hi all - a bit of a long story really!

My mum died 3 years ago unexpectedly! Mum and Dad had mirrored wills leaving everything equally between their 4 children.

My father went to live with my sisters after mum for about 1 year. As Dad was an alcoholic - they couldn't cope and put him up in a hotel (his house was 3 hours away). He got a taxi home the next day and they ignored him for months!

I had previously had a fall out with my father and had not spoken to him for about a year - but I decided to ring up Christmas 2007 to see how he was to find out that my sisters had kicked him out and he had been on his own for months.

I travelled straight through to see him - eventually ended up putting him in a Detox clinic to help him!

My "sisters" decided it would be best if he went back to live with them after his detox even though I said he could live with me.

2 months later I got a phone call from one of my sisters asking if we could have Dad for the weekend! She met me half way on the motorway and this was the last that Dad or I heard from any of them for 5 months!!!

Sorry to go on - but Dad lived with me and my partner from June last year and was sadly diagnosed with and died very quickly of lung cancer in April 30 this year.

Dad had arranged for a solicitor to come around to my house to change his will in that he wanted me to be Executor!

Two things happened!

1. I found out that Dad had made a new will when he was staying with my sisters and wrote me out of it.
2. The will that the new solicitor drew up was not expedited with the Court before my Dad died.

I KNOW that Dad had no recollection of making new will when he was with my sisters as he told the solicitor that his will had always been the same in that we each have a 1/4 share.

Dad also suffered with dementia

As I do not speak with my siblings because of the way they treated my Dad........any ideas what I can do?

Anybody else been in a similar situation?

Would appreciate any advice.

Many thanks, very sad Fi x
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# 2
tandraig
Old 26-09-2009, 5:14 PM
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this is a bit complicated and I am not a solicitor - and i think you need to see one.
your dad was an alcoholic and also suffered from dementia? for how long?
he made a will he doesnt remember doing while staying with your sisters?
he recently changed his will while staying with you (through a solicitor? properly signed and witnessed?) do you have a copy of it?

I cant see any problem if the most recent will has been signed and witnessed but would contact the solicitor who drew it up for clarification. people make homemade wills all the time and they go through probate ok.
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# 3
property.advert
Old 26-09-2009, 5:23 PM
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If the will he made which excludes you is valid and the last will, then you have a problem if you want to inherit anything. You are going to have to prove that he was not fit mentally to write up such a will. You will have to look at undue influence from your other relatives. You will have to address any reasons why you might have been written out.

If what you say is true, then what has likely happened is that your relatives have worked on your late father to change his will to exclude you because they wanted more of any inheritance. This means you are their enemy and you will have to fight them. They face losing 25% of what they would inherit but they may have to cover legal fees to hang onto that. You and theyhave to do the maths.
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# 4
tandraig
Old 26-09-2009, 5:37 PM
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i got the impression that your dad had made new will while with you from
Two things happened!

1. I found out that Dad had made a new will when he was staying with my sisters and wrote me out of it.
2. The will that the new solicitor drew up was not expedited with the Court before my Dad died.
I am not sure what you mean by paragraph 2? this is why i said to contact solicitor cos if he had signed and witnessed it - i dont see why it wont be valid.
if it isnt signed or witnessed then you will indeed have a battle on your hands with sisters. also - if you want to challenge probate of previous will - be quick - there is only a limited time to do so!
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# 5
far2812
Old 26-09-2009, 6:05 PM
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The solicitor who came around took all the details from Dad ie - he wanted me to be Executor, me to have his bits and bobs (there was a word for this?). Dad signed some documents (I am not sure what they were) but apparently she did not complete all the paperwork necessary or lodge it with a Court so it is invalid!

I forgot to mention that my 3 siblings had Dad sign Power of Attorney to them - again he had absolutely no recollection of it and I had to mention it to him when they rented his flat out without him knowing.

He went mental and immediately had that revoked and a new one made out with me being Power of Attorney!

I am just so sad as I know my father was not aware of this other will as he was talking to my uncle about having my siblings signed out of the will!!

x
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# 6
MyRubyRed
Old 26-09-2009, 6:22 PM
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A will does not need to be lodged with a court. The whole idea of Power of Attorney is to protect the vulnerable. Sorry but lots don't sound right here
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# 7
far2812
Old 26-09-2009, 6:24 PM
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Yes but the Power of Attorney dies with the person apparently. Hopefully a court will see that. What do you mean "lots dont sound right here?"
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# 8
tandraig
Old 26-09-2009, 7:06 PM
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again - if dad made his wishes plain and he seems to have done then the fact the will wasnt lodged makes no difference. with the circumstances you describe hun i would indeed inform probate you are contesting will if its the previous one that has gone to probate. you will need all the documents from solicitor including drafts of the will. i would also get proof your dad had dementia. while having a solicitor do this is good - its not essential. i would look this up on that direct.gov site as i am sure i have seen something about it on there. and there was a previous thread about contesting a will about a month ago i think. may be helpful.
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# 9
MyRubyRed
Old 26-09-2009, 7:14 PM
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Sorry OP I did not mean my post to sound offensive to you , but on reading it back I think it probably did. What I meant is that I think you need to persue and contest as per tandraig's post above.
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# 10
far2812
Old 26-09-2009, 7:27 PM
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Thanks tandraig - I will look on that site!

I couldn't find any other similar posting on here about this kind of thing!

The whole situation is just sad - I know that Dad would be turning in his grave knowing that this is going on - he was signed out of his father's will 3 weeks before he died and it split their family up and Mum and Dad always told us that it would never happen to us!

No problem with getting information from Doctor - it was a psychiatrist who explained that Dad had alcoholic dementia and a brain scan that I took him for showed that he had the brain of an 88 year old (he was only 67!) and that his brain could not store any new detail!

I cared for my dad for the 11 months he lived with us and when he became very ill - my siblings didn't even come and visit him until 3 days before he died!

They didn't even send him a christmas card - they broke his heart!

Thanks for letting me talk about this - it really helps!
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# 11
creased-leach
Old 26-09-2009, 8:42 PM
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Playing devils advocate here. I know nowt of the legalities- just looking at it from a common sense perspective.

Timeline:

Dad writes will whilst being cared for by sisters. It favours them.

They part company.

Dad moves in with & is cared for by you. He writes new will. It favours you.

He has you written out of the 1st will. You comment that he "was talking to my uncle about having my siblings signed out of the will!!"

And yet you then say:
"The whole situation is just sad - I know that Dad would be turning in his grave knowing that this is going on - he was signed out of his father's will 3 weeks before he died and it split their family up and Mum and Dad always told us that it would never happen to us!"

So, should you go to court, you'd be arguing that your dad wasn't in a fit mental state to write the will written at your sisters...but he was, subsequently in a fit state when he wrote the will whilst living with you? Am I missing something here?
Only dead fish go with the flow...
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# 12
Savvy_Sue
Old 26-09-2009, 8:43 PM
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Just to check, you're not in Scotland are you? Because I don't know if things are different up there.

As others have said, the will doesn't have to be lodged anywhere to take effect, it just has to be properly signed and witnessed. However, if all the solicitor did was take your dad's instructions, and have him sign to say that was indeed what he wanted, but no will was actually drafted in time for him to sign, THEN you may have a problem.

So talk to the solicitor and find out what the situation actually is.
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# 13
Mojisola
Old 26-09-2009, 10:26 PM
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Do your sisters have the earlier will? Are they starting the process of proving the will?
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# 14
tandraig
Old 26-09-2009, 10:34 PM
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there was a thread on here think it was called 'contesting will.....' I read it as my aunts will was horrible she was really mean to her sisters, but she had alzheimers and it got really complicated as the house she left to charity was my nans and was supposed to be left to all four girls - my nan also had alzhiemers and we found out when aunt died she had had nan sign the house over to her! thats why i remember post.
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# 15
property.advert
Old 27-09-2009, 12:52 AM
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The OP has to be straight here about why she is upset. I can only assume because of money as she does again remind us that she did all this caring and the other did nothing. Doesn't matter really, not in law.

Now if the will was 6m then you'd be asking the other 3 to each give up 500,000. That pays for a lot of lawyers so I guess they would fight it. You may not have the money to fight them. If the estate was worth 30,000 and you have the money to fight and pay legal fees, then they would be looking at giving you 2,500 each and they may consider or be persuaded that it might be cheaper to give you the 25% you are claiming than fight it and win.

You have to be pragmatic and honest, including just what you are prepared to do and what you want to achieve.
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# 16
far2812
Old 27-09-2009, 8:11 AM
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Thanks for the advice!

As my Dad was unaware that he had made the other will - I was happy that all he was changing (in his mind) was that he was making me Executor! I had ran through all his finances with him as he had got confused with it all and he said it made sense as I knew where his monies were. SO I was happy as the main content of the will wasn't being changed and therefore really wasn't a major change.

My Uncle dissuaded him from changing his will (thinking it was the original) and knowing that it was because Dad was sad that my siblings hadn't been in touch. But we thought he would regret it.

His estate is worth 400,000.

As far as I am aware, my sibings are processing the will (the one in their favour)

To answer your question property.advert - yes I am upset because I was written out of Dad's will because I know he wouldn't want it and yes - I would like my share of his estate as was originally intended.

I will fight it! Just don't know how to!
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# 17
tandraig
Old 27-09-2009, 11:25 AM
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hi far 2812 - my thinking on this is that if you can prove dad had dementia in his later years the court may well decide to revert to his previous will that mirrored your mothers as this was done when he was comps mentis. they may decide that all later wills invalid. if you know who drew up the wills for your mum and dad could you get a copy of thier wills? would help your case enormously i think.
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# 18
vaio
Old 27-09-2009, 11:41 AM
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If I’ve got it right……

Dad made a will 1 with equal split

Dad made will 2 with you left out

Dad can’t remember will 2 and gave instructions to solicitors to alter will 1 to make you executor but for one reason or another it didn’t get completed

I think whether you can challenge it depends on you being able to convince a court that he was not legally capable and/or under duress when he made will 2. I’m not sure the fact he can’t remember making will 2 is sufficient in it’s self, the question is did he know what he was doing when he made it.

Given the significant sums of money involved you need proper legal advice assuming you can’t sort it out with your siblings.
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# 19
Susan Frost
Old 28-09-2009, 6:36 AM
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I dont have a clue about any legal aspects of this, but

I guess if you want a witness to the fact dad wanted you to have a share, then the solicitor who drew up the new will, even if not submitted in the right way, must have met him and could state that fact in court. I know it is not the same as having a legal will, but you will have an independant witness to his wishes perhaps.

No idea if this post if of any help at all - sorry.

Bye the way, how long do people have to contest probate. How much time does OP have?
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# 20
Edinburghlass
Old 28-09-2009, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far2812 View Post
Thanks for the advice!

As my Dad was unaware that he had made the other will - I was happy that all he was changing (in his mind) was that he was making me Executor! I had ran through all his finances with him as he had got confused with it all and he said it made sense as I knew where his monies were. SO I was happy as the main content of the will wasn't being changed and therefore really wasn't a major change.

My Uncle dissuaded him from changing his will (thinking it was the original) and knowing that it was because Dad was sad that my siblings hadn't been in touch. But we thought he would regret it.

His estate is worth 400,000.

As far as I am aware, my sibings are processing the will (the one in their favour)

To answer your question property.advert - yes I am upset because I was written out of Dad's will because I know he wouldn't want it and yes - I would like my share of his estate as was originally intended.

I will fight it! Just don't know how to!
Both solicitors who drew up these wills should have ascertained that your father was of sound mind and knew exactly what he was signing, perhaps the second solicitor wasn't convinced your father knew what he was asking/signing and hence the delay in finalising the will.
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