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  • FIRST POST
    • Weggy
    • By Weggy 19th Nov 05, 10:20 AM
    • 463Posts
    • 98Thanks
    Weggy
    Full and final settlement help thread
    • #1
    • 19th Nov 05, 10:20 AM
    Full and final settlement help thread 19th Nov 05 at 10:20 AM
    Hi all

    Am currently trying to negotiate with debt collection agencies, to get them to accept a full and final settlement figure. Does anyone have any tips on persuading them to lower their demands?

    Thanks

    Last edited by MSE Archna; 21-06-2006 at 7:41 AM.
Page 74
    • DrWatson1
    • By DrWatson1 17th Oct 16, 9:34 AM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    DrWatson1
    Many thanks as usual

    Idem also stated "We have therefore fully complied with our obligations regarding this matter and the debt once again becomes fully enforceable".

    Which at face value seems to contravene several FCA rules:

    (1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.

    (2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.

    (3) In particular, a firm should not in such cases either threaten court action or other enforcement of the debt or imply that the debt is enforceable when it is not.
    Would this further strengthen my case if it went to court?
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 17th Oct 16, 12:13 PM
    • 8,335 Posts
    • 8,168 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Quick question about "prescribed terms".

    Following on from my CCA requests, a creditor (Idem) has written to me with a signed application form for one of my debts (M&S), together with a statement of account. The single page document they have sent looks like an in-store application for that takes 5 mins to fill out.

    However, the application form does not contain what I understand to be the "prescribed terms" - there is no mention of credit limit or interest rate.

    Is this debt enforceable?
    Originally posted by DrWatson1
    Hi,

    You have requested a "copy of the original credit agreement".

    Sending an application form (which by the way is a common tactic) does not comply with your original request.

    Therefore they have not complied with your request, and the account remains unenforceable until they do so.

    Also agreements dated before April 2007 must also contain the "prescribed terms" applicable to that agreement, failure to do so, again, renders the account irredeemably unenforceable.

    Idem are feeding you !!!!!!!!, hoping you will swallow it.

    From the links provided by Fatbelly, put together a letter basically stating what a correct response should be, and then what they have sent you.

    That will put the ball firmly in there court, they would not be wise taking this to court as case law exists to scupper there argument.

    However, the law on credit agreements is quite complex, to be honest, i`m not entirely convinced the people who work for these debt collectors are any more clued up than you or I, it can be confusing determining what is, and what is not, enforceable.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 17-10-2016 at 12:21 PM.

    For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
    0808 808 4000
    Monday to Friday
    9am to 9pm
    Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
    • DrWatson1
    • By DrWatson1 17th Oct 16, 4:10 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    DrWatson1
    Many thanks

    I'll give it until the end of the month, and then take stock of the situation. I'm still waiting for three creditors to reply to my CCA request, so I would prefer to see what looks enforceable and what doesn't before I consider my next step.

    My debts are with Stepchange, so in the meantime i'll see if they will play ball and stop paying the non-compilers.
    • scunner
    • By scunner 17th Oct 16, 9:17 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    scunner
    Hi. Congratulations to all in negotiating discounts. I haven't been in this thread before as I've never been in a position where a creditor has offered a F&F and having seen the more recent posts in the thread could anyone please clarify what they mean by "CCA"'d the creditor? Is this part of trying to establish that a debt isn't enforceable? Debt Managers recently offered me a discount of 40% that they've now increased to 50% after I wrote to them asking for a bigger discount as the debt is so old (more than 6 years). They've now offered a 50% discount and say this is the maximum. Whilst this seems tempting I'm keen to use whatever legislation is available and need to understand it better first! Or as an alternative, does anyone know of the type of debt/finance expert mentioned elsewhere in the thread please?
    • GP2015
    • By GP2015 27th Oct 16, 7:46 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    GP2015
    Settlement offer while on DMP?
    Hello,
    I'm not sure if I can hijack this thread, or start a new one, I'd appreciate advice if a new one is warranted.
    I have been on a DMP for a few years now and I have come to the point when I would be able to pay off my creditors with a lump sum - not quite, but pretty close to what I owe them. There are two questions I have, actually:
    1. as I have a DMP with a debt management agency, am I legally allowed to work behind their back, so to speak, negotiating partial settlments directly with my creditors? The agency handles payments to creditors on my behalf, so they are my "agents" / representatives, and if not by law, than by custom, they handle my "case". Alsow, while they work for my benefit, I'm aware they make money off my debt (by accruing my monthly payments on their bank account before passing it to the creditors), so, I imagine, they would be happier for me to stay on the DMP as long as possible, rather than let me get off hook earlier. It is a cynical view, but they do make money this way and no business, even a charity, would be happy about making less money.
    2. re-focusing on the main issue, i.e. making offers directly to my creditors, they were originally banks but those, over the last years, those have got rid of bad creditors like me and sold my debt to debt collection agencies. Now, an instict tells me that if I offered a (part) settlment to my original creditors, i.e. a bank, they would be much more flexible to accept such settlement, because better part-payment than none, or drip-dripping pennies over very long period. However, now it's too late, they sold me on, and I would presume that debt collection agencies are, in general, much, much less keen on any sort of settlement short of paying off debt in full, because, well, they are in business of collecting debts, rather than cutting their losses, as banks would be.
    Or is it just nonsense, and it is _definitely_ worth writing to them to make an offer of an early PART settlement? If so, what is the right amount, percentagewise, to get the balance right? Should I offer around 70% of what is left of my debt? Would they not think: nah, the guy's been paying regularly for the last x years, we'd rather keep collecting the current monthly payments until he pays us 100%? And am I being an idiot, because I should begin negotiations with a lower figure, unless I want to settle for around 90%, which they would send as a counter-offer?
    On the other hand, I do feel that offering a low % is taking a mickey, considering I got into this debt in the first place.
    But, most importantly, is it worth writing to them with such proposals for part-settlement? And if they reply without a higher counter offer, should I come up with a higher % and try again, or just wait and try in a few months?

    Regards,

    mark
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 27th Oct 16, 10:58 PM
    • 10,078 Posts
    • 7,559 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Hello,
    I'm not sure if I can hijack this thread, or start a new one, I'd appreciate advice if a new one is warranted.
    Originally posted by GP2015
    Yes, this is a sort of subject-thread so that's fine

    1. Yes you can negotiate your own deals - these are your debts and a dmp is an informal solution

    2. Don't over-think this. You deal with the present owner of the debt. If they have bought the account they will have paid probably less than 20% of the balance figure. If you start your offers at 25-30% they are already in profit, and the point of this thread is to show what levels creditors will settle.

    So posts like this one are valuable.

    If you are happy with what they come back with, then you pay up and settle. .
    • Daisypop
    • By Daisypop 29th Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 106 Thanks
    Daisypop
    Hi
    I've had 2 replies to my 4 cca requests both seem fine . One is with link financial and one with Cabot.
    I still want to try and offer full and finals as one will take me 5 years to pay and one over 9 years at my current repayment.
    Anyone had any success with either please?
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 29th Oct 16, 6:42 PM
    • 10,078 Posts
    • 7,559 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Hi
    I've had 2 replies to my 4 cca requests both seem fine . One is with link financial and one with Cabot.
    I still want to try and offer full and finals as one will take me 5 years to pay and one over 9 years at my current repayment.
    Anyone had any success with either please?
    Originally posted by Daisypop
    I quoted a post in the one before yours. They had one with Link (80%) and three with Cabot (30-60%), which shows you this is not an exact science but there are savings to be made. Start low.
    • scotnorma
    • By scotnorma 2nd Nov 16, 6:14 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    scotnorma
    Hi everyone,
    I've recently discovered this thread, and as a result I sent off 3 CCA requests for my defaults from 2009/10 last week.

    Today I received a letter from Tesco Bank Glasgow Legal Notices Team saying "Unfortunately you've not provided a signature as authority to allow us to continue with your request, please return a copy of this letter with the correct signature". I just wrote my name in capitals on the original letters as I'm sure I read somewhere that you shouldn't sign it - am I walking into some trap if I do as they ask? I'm sorry that I'm not more savvy on this, so any advice appreciated!


    Regards,
    scotnorma
    Last edited by scotnorma; 02-11-2016 at 6:48 PM.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 2nd Nov 16, 9:16 PM
    • 8,335 Posts
    • 8,168 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Hi everyone,
    I've recently discovered this thread, and as a result I sent off 3 CCA requests for my defaults from 2009/10 last week.

    Today I received a letter from Tesco Bank Glasgow Legal Notices Team saying "Unfortunately you've not provided a signature as authority to allow us to continue with your request, please return a copy of this letter with the correct signature". I just wrote my name in capitals on the original letters as I'm sure I read somewhere that you shouldn't sign it - am I walking into some trap if I do as they ask? I'm sorry that I'm not more savvy on this, so any advice appreciated!


    Regards,
    scotnorma
    Originally posted by scotnorma
    Hi,

    A credit agreement doesn't require a signature to be valid anyway.

    Also no where in the consumer credit act does it state a signature is required for a CCA request either.

    Tesco are being pedantic.

    But signing the letter won't hurt.

    For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
    0808 808 4000
    Monday to Friday
    9am to 9pm
    Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
    • scotnorma
    • By scotnorma 2nd Nov 16, 9:41 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    scotnorma
    Thanks sourcrates, I didn't want to shoot myself in the foot by doing it so thought it best to check.

    The advice on this thread (& on the other financial forums) is so helpful, I can't thank everyone enough for their input. Even if I haven't posted on them, I've certainly read and been enlightened by many of them!

    Thanks from a bit of a lurker
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 2nd Nov 16, 10:07 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    leighavfc
    Hi all

    I am in the position to pay a lump sum off my remaining debt, there will still be around £1400 left to pay after i have done this. This is why i am interested in making F&F settlement offers as im hoping i can knock this £1400 off with them.

    Firstly if you do this F&F offer does it go down on your credit file as something different other than a settled account?

    Are there any templates for F&F offers? I am rubbish at writing letters!! Another question i have is that i have complaints in with 5 PDL companys i currently owe money to, should i wait for these complaints to be resolved before sending F&F offers?
    Step Change DMP: £2267.78
    Estimated debt free date: March 2017
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 2nd Nov 16, 10:53 PM
    • 10,078 Posts
    • 7,559 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Hi all

    I am in the position to pay a lump sum off my remaining debt, there will still be around £1400 left to pay after i have done this. This is why i am interested in making F&F settlement offers as im hoping i can knock this £1400 off with them.

    Firstly if you do this F&F offer does it go down on your credit file as something different other than a settled account?

    Are there any templates for F&F offers? I am rubbish at writing letters!! Another question i have is that i have complaints in with 5 PDL companys i currently owe money to, should i wait for these complaints to be resolved before sending F&F offers?
    Originally posted by leighavfc
    It should be marked partially settled

    There is a template letter here

    https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Full-and-final-settlement-offers-(sole-name).aspx#

    Yes, wait for complaints to be resolved first
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 3rd Nov 16, 12:02 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    leighavfc
    Thanks for your reply fatbelly

    I take it thats its better for my record/credit file that i settle in full or does it really matter?

    The reason i say that is i want to get onto property ladder in next few years (after debt has been paid off obviously). I just want to make sure i do all the right things so my credit score/file is as good as it can be when im ready to apply for a mortgage.

    If partially settled causes problems further on down the line i will just pay up in full as this was the plan anyway before i read about F&F offers.
    Step Change DMP: £2267.78
    Estimated debt free date: March 2017
    • redux
    • By redux 3rd Nov 16, 12:14 PM
    • 15,558 Posts
    • 18,362 Thanks
    redux
    Thanks for your reply fatbelly

    I take it thats its better for my record/credit file that i settle in full or does it really matter?

    The reason i say that is i want to get onto property ladder in next few years (after debt has been paid off obviously). I just want to make sure i do all the right things so my credit score/file is as good as it can be when im ready to apply for a mortgage.

    If partially settled causes problems further on down the line i will just pay up in full as this was the plan anyway before i read about F&F offers.
    Originally posted by leighavfc
    Well, don't forget that old accounts stop being recorded at the agencies 6 years after the date of default, and bear that in mind if they are only a year or two away by now.
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 3rd Nov 16, 1:08 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    leighavfc
    Well, don't forget that old accounts stop being recorded at the agencies 6 years after the date of default, and bear that in mind if they are only a year or two away by now.
    Originally posted by redux
    Most of mine are only reaching year 3 at start of 2017, what would you do? im guessing its going to be at least 2/3 years before im anywhere near a position to apply for a mortgage
    Step Change DMP: £2267.78
    Estimated debt free date: March 2017
    • redux
    • By redux 3rd Nov 16, 2:34 PM
    • 15,558 Posts
    • 18,362 Thanks
    redux
    Most of mine are only reaching year 3 at start of 2017, what would you do? im guessing its going to be at least 2/3 years before im anywhere near a position to apply for a mortgage
    Originally posted by leighavfc
    I don't know exactly what relative weights a mortgage company puts on different elements of people's history. I would tend to guess that a default is more damage in the first place than the improvement difference between partial and full settlement later, but that could well be open to opinion or argument.

    Maybe it is an option to offer partial settlement now, and consider voluntary further payment up to full settlement later. I don't notice much discussion of that here, so I don't know if it happens much or is even possible. Maybe others can comment.
  • National Debtline
    Most of mine are only reaching year 3 at start of 2017, what would you do? im guessing its going to be at least 2/3 years before im anywhere near a position to apply for a mortgage
    Originally posted by leighavfc

    Hi Leigh


    If we assume for simplicity's sake that all of your debts defaulted 1/1/2015, then they will all drop off your file completely on 1/1/2021 whether you have settled them fully, partially, or not at all in the meantime.


    If you don't apply for a mortgage before then, arguably it is academic whether you settle in full now or settle for partial amounts. Obviously, partial settlements would enable you to preserve more of any future deposit you are trying to accumulate - having that deposit would be just as crucial as a "clean" credit report.


    On the flip side (just to blur the picture a little more!), settling debts in full now may mean you can more easily access credit while the defaults are still on file; building up a track record of borrowing and repaying on time can help "rehabilitate" your credit file while waiting for those defaults to disappear.


    Hope that helps.


    Dennis
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 3rd Nov 16, 6:08 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    leighavfc
    Hi Leigh


    If we assume for simplicity's sake that all of your debts defaulted 1/1/2015, then they will all drop off your file completely on 1/1/2021 whether you have settled them fully, partially, or not at all in the meantime.


    If you don't apply for a mortgage before then, arguably it is academic whether you settle in full now or settle for partial amounts. Obviously, partial settlements would enable you to preserve more of any future deposit you are trying to accumulate - having that deposit would be just as crucial as a "clean" credit report.


    On the flip side (just to blur the picture a little more!), settling debts in full now may mean you can more easily access credit while the defaults are still on file; building up a track record of borrowing and repaying on time can help "rehabilitate" your credit file while waiting for those defaults to disappear.


    Hope that helps.


    Dennis
    @natdebtline
    Originally posted by National Debtline
    Hi Dennis

    Thats exactly the two situations i had in my head, so thanks for confirming that.

    The better situation for me imo will be to pay in full now and let my credit file improve before all defaults are removed. I say this because when my nan passed away a number of years ago, she left me around 7/8 k which has been in an isa or something that only my dad has access to. He will give me this as and when i want it. I did not ask for it to pay off my debts as it has been a topic of friction in the past and i didnt want all the hassle again. Although in hindsight it may have been the better thing to do, but i will say going through this period of financial difficulty has actually taught me a lot and i am much better with money these days .

    Thanks for answering my questions, was very helpful
    Step Change DMP: £2267.78
    Estimated debt free date: March 2017
    • razzles
    • By razzles 7th Nov 16, 12:28 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    razzles
    Halifax
    Hi All,


    Will keep this briefish. over 10 years ago had over 50k of cc debit.
    Started paying £1.00 per month to each cc company. Managed to settle 2 fairly quickly (remortaged so had the money to settle with) Some would not, over the years have increased the amounts paid, and full and final with a few more. Down to the last two. Just settled another this morning. The last one is now Halifax, owe 5500, they have come down to 3600 but wont budge any more. As the has been going on for over 10 years what action can they take if I just stop paying?


    Thanks
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