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Permitted Development Outbuilding - distance from property

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  • lwhiteman88
    lwhiteman88 Posts: 106 Forumite
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    PeteW wrote: »
    However after some dithering, our council decided to evaluate it as a Class E application and so reject it. From what I've heard this is very unusual and not what other councils have done in similar conditions - hence I am looking for examples of this that I can reference in an appeal.

    That is quite an interesting case. The council have used the phrase 'material gap' which is a subjective comment and as I mentioned in my previous post the council will often try and find any way to refuse a permitted development application if they do not agree with the proposal.

    As it is subjective it is likely that the planning inspectorate would take a different view. However precedent applications are never that useful as planning officers and the planning inspectorate will take each application on its own merits.

    My suggestion would be to increase the gap to 0.5m or even 1m if possible. Then there is clearly a 'material gap'. You could potentially even do this whilst the appeal process is going on (may be worth double checking you can do this as the council may have a case to claim costs if the appeal fails due to the additional work).


    A 100mm gap isn't really a good idea anyway as you will likely have overhanging roof eaves which in reality could mean that the two buildings do in fact touch. Just a guess of course without seeing the drawings.
  • EachPenny
    EachPenny Posts: 12,239 Forumite
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    Before doing anything else I would ask the council to explain their definition of a 'material gap', why the proposed gap is not 'material' - and what the minimum gap would be in this case for them to consider it sufficient to be 'material'.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
  • PeteW
    PeteW Posts: 1,212 Forumite
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    ProDave wrote: »
    Nobody has asked yet what the intended use of this otbuilding are? or why it can't be sited further away from the house so the council consider it as a separate building/.

    It's a utility room - somewhere for the washer, dryer etc. So obviously as close to the house, the better. The proposed site is down the side of the house, out of the way. With the 1metre gap the council have asked for, it wouldn't fit there and would have to go down on the lawn which would be undesirable for numerous reasons.
  • lwhiteman88
    lwhiteman88 Posts: 106 Forumite
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    EachPenny wrote: »
    Before doing anything else I would ask the council to explain their definition of a 'material gap', why the proposed gap is not 'material' - and what the minimum gap would be in this case for them to consider it sufficient to be 'material'.

    I wish councils were that easy to get info from. It's very unlikely the council will give any of this kind of information out without a pre-planning enquiry or another application. Both of which cost and most councils do not offer pre-planning advice on permitted development.

    It sounds like an exaggeration but unfortunately planners very rarely give out specific advice.
  • lwhiteman88
    lwhiteman88 Posts: 106 Forumite
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    PeteW wrote: »
    It's a utility room - somewhere for the washer, dryer etc. So obviously as close to the house, the better. The proposed site is down the side of the house, out of the way. With the 1metre gap the council have asked for, it wouldn't fit there and would have to go down on the lawn which would be undesirable for numerous reasons.

    worth remembering that what the council asks for and what they have to give under PD are two different things. I would increase the gap so in elevation they are clearly not touching and re-submit whilst appealing. I think you could have a strong case. Worth checking out the planning jungle website which has numerous appeal cases. There may be some of a similar nature and could give you an idea who the planning inspectorate sided with.
  • lwhiteman88
    lwhiteman88 Posts: 106 Forumite
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    lwhiteman88 wrote: »
    worth remembering that what the council asks for and what they have to give under PD are two different things. I would increase the gap so in elevation they are clearly not touching and re-submit whilst appealing. I think you could have a strong case. Worth checking out the planning jungle website which has numerous appeal cases. There may be some of a similar nature and could give you an idea who the planning inspectorate sided with.

    I just did a quick check and there are a couple of cases where the gap was actually only 25mm. The local council refused it for a similar reason to yours but then the planning inspectorate sided that this is a gap nonetheless and approved the application
  • PeteW
    PeteW Posts: 1,212 Forumite
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    lwhiteman88 wrote: »
    I just did a quick check and there are a couple of cases where the gap was actually only 25mm. The local council refused it for a similar reason to yours but then the planning inspectorate sided that this is a gap nonetheless and approved the application

    Would you mind sending me the planning references for those please? Would hopefully help with an appeal. Thanks.
  • lwhiteman88
    lwhiteman88 Posts: 106 Forumite
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    PeteW wrote: »
    Would you mind sending me the planning references for those please? Would hopefully help with an appeal. Thanks.

    Unfortunately they are from the planning jungle which is a paid for website. So, without sounding selfish, I probably can't share without breaching their websites terms. I will see if they allow this but it may be worth you just joining as in the grand scheme it would be cost effective. I believe its £60. There are 4 cases which are identical to yours all of which were approved on appeal.
  • Doozergirl
    Doozergirl Posts: 33,813 Forumite
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    I was going to say that it's probably worth joining the Planning Jungle website as it is full of permitted development case history!

    I've benefitted from it in the past. It's worth the money.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
  • EachPenny
    EachPenny Posts: 12,239 Forumite
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    lwhiteman88 wrote: »
    I wish councils were that easy to get info from. It's very unlikely the council will give any of this kind of information out without a pre-planning enquiry or another application. Both of which cost and most councils do not offer pre-planning advice on permitted development.

    It sounds like an exaggeration but unfortunately planners very rarely give out specific advice.

    I'd generally agree with this, but Local Government officers have to base their decisions on legislation, policy, guidance and adopt a reasonable approach. Someone affected by their decision can reasonably ask them to explain it and show that it is based on a reasonable approach. If the council declines to provide that information then their position in relation to costs at a later date is undermined.

    The OP could use FOI to request the council's definition of 'minimum gap' in general terms, but it is unlikely to help them much. Therefore I'd ask the questions in my previous post and then look at appealing depending on the response.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
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