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The thing is the Chief Execs have to be kept in the style to which they have become accustomed.
As a result council tax has become like a second mortgage.
Seems inherently unfair to me that she could have to foot the whole bill for all 4 people 3 of whom appear to have vanished. Being used as an easy scapegoat especially given all those years have gone by. I always thought there was a 10 year disregard but clearly not.
It also seems extremely unfair that she is not allowed to see what the other 3 paid, if anything. And of course what she actually paid. I would seek legal advice on that aspect.0 -
Irish_lad80 wrote: »Strikes me as being very unfair of the council is all. If she asks the council for a statement of payments do they have to provide it?
You'd think they would have to. That strikes me as her only possible defence.
If they send a letter to her at another address with other peoples names on it then either they can't find them or more likely pick on the easy target that they do know about.0 -
indeed why should I pay any tax at all when all it does it keep the spongers in benefits. Much better to stop paying tax and become a sponger myself.The thing is the Chief Execs have to be kept in the style to which they have become accustomed.
As a result council tax has become like a second mortgage.
since OP's friend cannot recall the relevant details then there is no point speculating about "fairness"Seems inherently unfair to me that she could have to foot the whole bill for all 4 people 3 of whom appear to have vanished. Being used as an easy scapegoat especially given all those years have gone by. I always thought there was a 10 year disregard but clearly not.
It also seems extremely unfair that she is not allowed to see what the other 3 paid, if anything. And of course what she actually paid. I would seek legal advice on that aspect.
if it was an HMO the council would not have 4 names to chase since it would be the LL who was liable, not the 4 tenants
since the council has 4 names it is certain that it was a joint tenancy and therefore all 4 occupants are jointly and severally liable for the whole of the bill as has already been explained. There is never a my charge your share when it comes to council tax because it is what it is, a tax on a property where the people occupying that property are liable for it in full
would you rather the hard pressed council spend tax receipts money tracking down 3 other tenants to claim from or would you rather than the council spends its tax wisely in pursuing the one person they have found who has an inherent liability for the whole bill? That is the law. Complain to your MP if you find the law unpalatable, meantime OP's friend will have to pay the bill or the enforcement order will be applied and the money will be deducted from her pay and paid direct to the council by her employer as that is what the council is now legally entitled to do0 -
in order to have obtained the liability order in the first place the council would have to evidence how much is outstanding. It is rather safe to assume that all payments from any of the 4 has been netted off to arrive at the outstanding balance for which the court order was granted.You'd think they would have to. That strikes me as her only possible defence.
questioning that would have been relevant at the time of the court order. Granted OP's friend did not know the court session was taking place and could ask for the evidence now, but it won't alter the size of the debt unless the council made a monumental error.0 -
the coucil will pursue the person that it costs them the least amount of money to find. That happens to be your friend. bad luck for her sadly.Irish_lad80 wrote: »That's what I'm asking. I would think as the letter is addressed to 4 people not just her that they wouldn't just try to squeeze the one person dry. Also given the time frame involved give time to try and find any details of payments or to find the other people involved. Strikes me as being very unfair of the council is all. If she asks the council for a statement of payments do they have to provide it?
your timeline does raise the possibility that if friend can show she has been paying CT at another address since a date in 2007 then any amount that covers after that date on the old address could possibly be contested. Although it is now rather late to start a contest, the council will of course be aware that OP's friend has "only just" been made aware of the position and the council may therefore be willing to review "new" evidence of the liability period.0 -
indeed why should I pay any tax at all when all it does it keep the spongers in benefits. Much better to stop paying tax and become a sponger myself.
since OP's friend cannot recall the relevant details then there is no point speculating about "fairness"
if it was an HMO the council would not have 4 names to chase since it would be the LL who was liable, not the 4 tenants
since the council has 4 names it is certain that it was a joint tenancy and therefore all 4 occupants are jointly and severally liable for the whole of the bill as has already been explained. There is never a my charge your share when it comes to council tax because it is what it is, a tax on a property where the people occupying that property are liable for it in full
That is the law. Complain to your MP if you find the law unpalatable, meantime OP's friend will have to pay the bill or the enforcement order will be applied and the money will be deducted from her pay and paid direct to the council by her employer as that is what the council is now legally entitled to do
Well of course they should attempt to track down the other 3.
And you've disregarded an important point.
Can she or legal representative have a look at what was actually paid and by whom on grounds of accuracy amongst others. Because these people are widely incompetent.0 -
Irish_lad80 wrote: »Believes in was a joint tenancy but not certain on that, being so long ago she can't recall. Tax would have been paid in the post office or to another tenant she believes. Bank account doesn't show details going back that fair online. Not to the landlord. Landlord did not live there at any stage. She thinks it was classed as a HMO. The house is in Greenwich Borough London. Friend was early twenties at the time.
Liability order was granted but this is the thing I find strange, it was granted in the June of 2006 but the tenancy only started in the April 2006. On the first letter received is says it was granted in June for the total up to Apr 2007 (1,200 split between Greater London and Greenwich fees, 950 odd having been paid during the year). The second order was granted in June 2007 again for the year starting Apr 2007 but they all moved out in July of that year. Statement seems to suggest that no tax for that year was paid again, friend insists that she paid her share in full. Do we have the right to request a full statement of all payments and charges etc?
As far as friend is aware no letters were sent during the time about tax owing. Also she is concerned that the second letter is only addressed to her, like they have given up on trying to contact/find the other tenants listed on the first letter where they were named as liable parties.
Very easy to happen - Demand Notice sent April for payment on 01 May. Payment not made on 01 May so Reminder Notice issued a few days giving 14 days for payment. By the end of the month the Summons would be issued and 14 days later the Liability Order could be issued.I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.0 -
Irish_lad80 wrote: »I say strange that liability order granted in June only 2 months after the tenancy starts because I would have though it would be longer than that before the council seek such an order. Then she really was unlucky that they found her first and don't care that there are 4 people listed as liable. Does she have any right to appeal?
If the council are asked they'll be able to provide any relevant details regarding payments etc.
CraigI no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.0 -
Well of course they should attempt to track down the other 3.
And you've disregarded an important point.
Can she or legal representative have a look at what was actually paid and by whom on grounds of accuracy amongst others. Because these people are widely incompetent.
The council have no particular regard as to which liable person paid what amount. For a joint tenancy, whether the tenants like it or not, they are jointly and severally liable for payment and legislation allows any of them to be pursued as though they were the sole debtor for any outstanding amount.
The council are under no requirement to pursue any of the debtors - whether they choose to or not is their choice.
CraigI no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.0 -
OP
This is what I would do in your friends position.
I would ask the council for the financial information relating what has been paid and by whom.
I would also ask what steps they are taking to find the other 3. If no answer arrives or is unsatisfactory then citizens advice, Member Of Parliament and possibly the local paper.
Don't give in without a fight.
I would demand an interview and ask them those questions.0
This discussion has been closed.
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