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legality of boiler situation - rented

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24

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  • Vectis
    Vectis Posts: 692 Forumite
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    aneary wrote: »
    The OP isn't able to get to the boiler, a washing machine needs to be moved to access the pilot light.

    Nevertheless I think I'd learn how to pull the washing machine out from under the work surface and relight the boiler if it meant I didn't have to go without hot water each time. And, in the meantime, write to the LL detailing the ongoing problem.

    Must admit though, I 'm trying to comprehend how a gas boiler can be behind a washing machine under the sink? It must be a very deep work surface, or I'm misunderstanding.
  • aneary
    aneary Posts: 921 Forumite
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    Vectis wrote: »
    Nevertheless I think I'd learn how to pull the washing machine out from under the work surface and relight the boiler if it meant I didn't have to go without hot water each time. And, in the meantime, write to the LL detailing the ongoing problem.

    Must admit though, I 'm trying to comprehend how a gas boiler can be behind a washing machine under the sink? It must be a very deep work surface, or I'm misunderstanding.

    Have you ever had back problems?

    Not sure what surgery the OP is due to have but after my back surgery I was advised not to lift anything heavy than a kettle, I thought this was rubbish it wasn't! The OP probably cannot move the washing machine.
  • LEJC
    LEJC Posts: 9,618 Forumite
    edited 1 November 2017 at 4:36PM
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    Do you have a copy of the annual gas safety certificate....cp12?

    I would have thought it highly unlikely that someone would put their name to that document if there were a real issue with the sighting of the boiler.

    there are several areas of the certificate where concerns should be documented....those that need immediate attention and those that are advisory....a little like a car mot....

    Regulations do change and everyone has suggested that whilst it is possible that the boiler would now not be able to be legally sighted in its current position,it was within a permitted area when it was installed.

    I also agree with the poster who suggests that you write to your LL direct and point out the number of times the boiler has been attended to and the cost as you are aware of each visit.
    If the LL is a distant one,which I suspect he is,a reality check on how much this one particular appliance is costing him might be needed....
    the chances are he is not really that aware or has got so used to the LA deductions that he may think they are part of a rolling issue....or indeed not even connected to the boiler.

    I dont see him as allergic to spending money....I see it that he's not addressing a problem that could so easily make a difference to whether you stay in the property or go elsewhere.

    Is it feesable that these problems would make you consider moving?
    Theres nothing a LL dislikes more than the potential that he needs to get a new tenant.

    My guess is he is happy paying out if you are happy to put up with it.
    Whether you are being reasonable in expecting or requesting the boiler to be moved/replaced or whatever is a matter for the LL to consider....but I think that you also need to be very prepared to say enough is enough and it's time for you to move out.
    That will generate either the response you want because the LL does not want to lose his tenant or will hopefully be an end to your problems going forward to another property without the issues this one has.
    frugal October...£41.82 of £40 food shopping spend for the 2 of us!

    2017 toiletries challenge 179 out 145 in ...£18.64 spend
  • stator
    stator Posts: 7,441 Forumite
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    If you really want to take this further I guess you have a read up on how to protect yourself from revenge eviction before you do anything
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
  • FBaby
    FBaby Posts: 18,367 Forumite
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    Is the washing machine yours or did it come with the property? If the former, the LL could be a *** and states that it's your problem for putting it in front of the boiler.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    stator wrote: »
    If you really want to take this further I guess you have a read up on how to protect yourself from revenge eviction before you do anything
    Yet another reason to put the issue in writing to the LL. It's step one to gaining the new protection from revenge eviction.
  • Chrysalis
    Chrysalis Posts: 4,154 Forumite
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    edited 1 November 2017 at 7:52PM
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    deannatrois wrote: »
    You could consider moving rather than deal with this every couple of days?

    I have considered moving for years but for private renting the market is a joke in terms of fees, security and rents, but this may possibly persuade me if I cannot resolve it. I see moving as an absolute last resort tho.
  • Chrysalis
    Chrysalis Posts: 4,154 Forumite
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    ProDave wrote: »
    Or get the man to show YOU how to re light the pilot, so you can fix it instantly and have your heating restored instantly.

    Ok abit more explanation.

    I already know the procedure, there is some instructions.

    However to reach the pilot button one has to move a heavy washing machineor lie down in a very tight area to reach the appropriate controls, with my current conditions both are not possible.

    Also the reason they were paying for callouts is the normal handy man also couldnt light it, as the normal procedure doesnt work, the guy they were paying to come out had a lot of trouble but usually got it lighted after about 30 mins of trying.

    So basically its not a simple relight in itself and its really hard to access.
  • Chrysalis
    Chrysalis Posts: 4,154 Forumite
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    edited 3 November 2017 at 11:40AM
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    G_M wrote: »
    I have no idea what the engineer might gain. And as I'm not a gas engineer, I cannot comment on whether

    * the location of the flue is simply not up to current Building Regs standards but was up to standard when installed, so is permissable, or

    * is dangerous, so a gas safety report should state that.

    You could ask over on DIYNOT forum - lots of gas engineers there.

    But if the flue is located such that a safety report should specify the problem, but the engineer is 'overlooking' that (for whatever reason), then you'd need evidence of that. GasSafe and/or HSE might have a process for querying/challenging a report.

    I also know little about council standards - I can only comment on tenancyy law generally. There is a general duty to maintain the heating system.

    Arguably a boiler that only works for a day at a time, and requires endless multiple repairs, is not being adequattely maintained.

    The counter-arguement would be that the LL is responding to each breakdown by arranging repairs and getting the boiler working again.

    But with any issue relating to repairs, the initial step should be a letter informing the LL of the issue, with full details, and a request for action. This is true whether the tenant is simply 'negotiating' a better deal, or is commencing a legal challenge.

    See also

    * Repairing Obligations: the law, common misconceptions, reporting/enforcing, retaliatory eviction & the new tenant protection (2015)

    yeah he didnt go into details.

    Basically I had mentioned to the safety engineer in casual conversation what would be the cost in getting the boiler moved (awkrawd location).

    He said would cost a bomb but a tool I could use with the landlord is that the current location is illegal, I didnt dive further into why he is signing it off on his certificate. But he advised to not push the non compliance with landlord as the likely resolution the landlord would simply do is a cheap option of sealing the window which would make it compliant. I then lose fresh air into my kitchen.

    I wasnt aware however it only needs to be compliant on new installs, if the law on that is fairly recent then it probably is legal in that respect. Seems a bit of a cop out tho to have such a loop hole.

    I understand more now what your advice meant, and I will follow it as you stated. The maintenance manager is very casual about the whole thing as if she thinks sending someone out every 1-2 days is a normal thing to do. On top of that I am never given a date or time, e.g. I spoke to her this morning and no one turned up today.
  • BorisThomson
    BorisThomson Posts: 1,721 Forumite
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    Are you on any benefits, and/ or a low income? If so you might be eligible for a grant towards a replacement. You could investigate this before speaking to your landlord, they might be more willing if most of the cost is covered.
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