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Daughter1
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Our father has recently passed away leaving the family home that my mum lives in, In trust until she passes or for her lifetime and then it goes to my younger sister. My mum will gain approximately £70-£80k and previously was able to claim social care due to my dads money being in his own name and inaccessible to her, and the marital home being in his sole name. He spent the last 4/5 years in a nursing home with dementia and luckily was granted CHC which funded him in the home. After money has been given as stated in the will to grandchildren etc my mum will be left with the above amount but she is not happy that this will get blown on care. We understand she can gift us £3k each a year (me and my sister) however she does not feel it was fair we were left nothing financially in the will and will get what's left when she has gone. A friend told us they had the same situation so their mum drew out £200 a day and gave it to the children. Surely there is a loophole of my mum giving us a share of this money. (She wants to split it 3 ways with herself included) Her query is what can't she do what she wants with the money? We have promised she won't go into care and if my sister needs to later on she will give up work to care for our mum (she did this for 3 years with our dad before it became too much for her and it was clear he needed more. He had severe dementia and mobility issues and had become aggressive) There is no IHT and I'm happy my sister will get the house one day due to the sacrifices she has made for both of our parents and I totally understand why they did this in my fathers will. Any help would be appreciated. Mum only currently gets 15 hours a week care through social care as my sister works as well as living with her and caring for her on her days off. We asked the solicitor about DOV but they treated us like we were after our mums money and not looking at her interests. This is what our mum wants. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Our father has recently passed away leaving the family home that my mum lives in, In trust until she passes or for her lifetime and then it goes to my younger sister. My mum will gain approximately £70-£80k and previously was able to claim social care due to my dads money being in his own name and inaccessible to her, and the marital home being in his sole name.
He spent the last 4/5 years in a nursing home with dementia and luckily was granted CHC which funded him in the home. After money has been given as stated in the will to grandchildren etc my mum will be left with the above amount but she is not happy that this will get blown on care. We understand she can gift us £3k each a year (me and my sister) however she does not feel it was fair we were left nothing financially in the will and will get what's left when she has gone. A friend told us they had the same situation so their mum drew out £200 a day and gave it to the children.
Surely there is a loophole of my mum giving us a share of this money. (She wants to split it 3 ways with herself included) Her query is what can't she do what she wants with the money? We have promised she won't go into care and if my sister needs to later on she will give up work to care for our mum (she did this for 3 years with our dad before it became too much for her and it was clear he needed more.
He had severe dementia and mobility issues and had become aggressive) There is no IHT and I'm happy my sister will get the house one day due to the sacrifices she has made for both of our parents and I totally understand why they did this in my fathers will.
Any help would be appreciated. Mum only currently gets 15 hours a week care through social care as my sister works as well as living with her and caring for her on her days off. We asked the solicitor about DOV but they treated us like we were after our mums money and not looking at her interests. This is what our mum wants. Any advice would be appreciated.
I have added some paragraphs to your original post so it is easier to read, your keyboard has a return key because people are put off by trying to read a wall of text.0 -
What you mum wants to do is called deliberate deprivation of assets, and quite rightly it is not looked apon kindly by local authorities, and there is no loophole, especially as she is already receiving home care.
The £3000 a year gift allowance is to do with inheritance tax, which your mother’s estate will never have to pay, so forget that as far as this is concerned.0 -
Too late to avoid deprivation of assets.
The can give away £3k to each of you per year, where did you get that from?
Asking the solicitor about DOV look very predatory.0 -
getmore4less wrote: »Too late to avoid deprivation of assets.
The can give away £3k to each of you per year, where did you get that from?
Asking the solicitor about DOV look very predatory.
If your mother had asked the question, he might have been more sympathetic, but very often they get asked this sort of thing by relatives more concerned with the effect on their inheritance, so I can understand their cynicism.
Even if she had been the one to ask the question, he would have to have explained that a DoV is simply a way of giving that keeps the bequest out of an estate for IHT purposes, and would still be treated as deprivation of assets as fare as care costs are concerned.
Your mother might want to consider putting some of this money to use for her benefit, like paying for adaptations to the house to make life easier for her and her carers. For example if she had a wet room or stair lift installed, that would be seen as perfectly acceptable use of her savings.0 -
Hello
Our mum is deaf so we had to ask on her behalf. She already has stair lift and wet room. We ensured this was done sooner rather than later. We were told she could give £3k to each of us yearly is this not the case? So how did a friend manage to withdraw £250 per day? Like I mentioned earlier she will 100% never go into a home as it’s a promise we made her. How else can she spend her money without being questioned?0 -
Whoever told you she could gift £3K per year were plain wrong. I have no idea how a friend could withdraw such money. Did they use her cash card using her PIN? That was illegal.0
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So what’s the £3k per year thing all about then. Some advice about what she can and cannot docwould be helpful.0
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Read post #3. The gift allowance is solely to do with IHT which will never affect you mother. Giving away money in an attempt to avoid care fees is known as deprivation of assets and will not work. If someone has deliberately deprived themselves of assets in the way you describe will reduce the amount of care fees she can claim. So if she gives away money as you have described this would be seen as deprivation of assets.So what’s the £3k per year thing all about then. Some advice about what she can and cannot docwould be helpful.0 -
Post 3 answers the £3k question
In truth, there is little she can do legitimately if she is in or likely to be in receipt of means tested benefits. Its capital not income she wants to give away although I daresay a trickle of small cash gifts could easily slip through the net as time goes on and that's probably what the £200 a day cashpoint 'thieves' were doing albeit a bit more blatantly.
It looks as if the family property has been ringfenced which isn't the case for many so perhaps you could direct her focus to that. That asset has been 'protected' for you.
In this case mum's wishes really mean she wants to be able to take more from the central pot ie from other people so you 3 can keep 'her' money. I understand why, when the care system seems to penalise those who save etc more than those who don't sometimes, but it isn't hard to see why doing so isn't 'allowed' - that pot is finite with almost infinite calls on it. Those that can pay unfortunately have to.
The time to address it was in dad's will and that wasn't done unfortunately but perhaps dad thought 'saving' the property was enough and that mum should have the savings for ANY needs she might have.0 -
You cannot promise she will never go into a care home. You can promise that you will do your absolute best to make sure it will never happen. You cannot guarantee that you will be able to provide all the care she may need.0
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