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  • FIRST POST
    • bluenose2
    • By bluenose2 3rd Jul 17, 1:55 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 4Thanks
    bluenose2
    Flexible Working. Reduce lunch break...
    • #1
    • 3rd Jul 17, 1:55 PM
    Flexible Working. Reduce lunch break... 3rd Jul 17 at 1:55 PM
    Good Afternoon,

    I have been with my company for over 5 years now and due to my daughter starting school in September I am required to change my hours in order to support with collection.

    Ordinarily I work 9-5 with a 1 hour lunch break but I am requesting a change in hours from September to 9-4:30 with a half hour lunch break.

    I have unofficially discussed this with my HR representative and he advised that I would be able to go down to the hours requested but cannot sacrifice my lunch break as they're unpaid, I would therefore have to take a salary sacrifice of a daily half an hour.

    Now of course I would much rather take the hit on lunch break in order to preserve my salary, am I being unreasonable here? Apparently they have rejected similar claims before and therefore it's unlikely mine would be accepted.

    I have asked them to arrange a formal meeting as per process but not feeling very confident based on the "informal conversation".

    Any suggestions or advice is appreciated.
Page 1
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 3rd Jul 17, 1:59 PM
    • 1,878 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • #2
    • 3rd Jul 17, 1:59 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Jul 17, 1:59 PM
    If they let you do it, everyone will want to do it. Literally everyone.
    • bluenose2
    • By bluenose2 3rd Jul 17, 2:05 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    bluenose2
    • #3
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:05 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:05 PM
    If they let you do it, everyone will want to do it. Literally everyone.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    If I have a justifiable reason (single Mother, working full time hours) then surely they will understand my position is set in stone, I won't be doing it just because I'd like a shorter day.

    Do they take that into account?!
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 3rd Jul 17, 2:10 PM
    • 1,202 Posts
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    IAmWales
    • #4
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:10 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:10 PM
    I expect others will consider their reasons justified also. They are refusing because, as mentioned, it will set a precedent and consequently have a negative impact on the business.

    They are offering you a solution. The other option would be for your child to attend after school club or similar.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 3rd Jul 17, 2:11 PM
    • 2,747 Posts
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    gettingtheresometime
    • #5
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:11 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:11 PM
    as my nan would say you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.


    I'd politely point out that the paid hours are the same (9 - 5 with an hour unpaid lunch is 7 working hours as is 9 - 4.30 with 30 minutes unpaid lunch) and that it would be more productive than having a shorter afternoon.


    point out to them the increased lunch time cover.


    In other words point out the benefits to them as a business rather than to you
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - the Argos Card!
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 3rd Jul 17, 2:24 PM
    • 1,878 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • #6
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:24 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:24 PM
    as my nan would say you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.


    I'd politely point out that the paid hours are the same (9 - 5 with an hour unpaid lunch is 7 working hours as is 9 - 4.30 with 30 minutes unpaid lunch) and that it would be more productive than having a shorter afternoon.


    point out to them the increased lunch time cover.


    In other words point out the benefits to them as a business rather than to you
    Originally posted by gettingtheresometime
    I think they know all this. They also know that the downside to them as a business is they will either have a lot of irritated staff or no cover at all after 4:30.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 3rd Jul 17, 2:33 PM
    • 29,763 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #7
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:33 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Jul 17, 2:33 PM
    I have unofficially discussed this with my HR representative and he advised that I would be able to go down to the hours requested but cannot sacrifice my lunch break as they're unpaid, I would therefore have to take a salary sacrifice of a daily half an hour.
    Originally posted by bluenose2
    This would worry me....

    Either the HR rep is stupid or thinks you are stupid.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 3rd Jul 17, 3:07 PM
    • 2,747 Posts
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    gettingtheresometime
    • #8
    • 3rd Jul 17, 3:07 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Jul 17, 3:07 PM
    I think they know all this. They also know that the downside to them as a business is they will either have a lot of irritated staff or no cover at all after 4:30.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser

    True - especially as this sort of request has been turned down before.


    If I was the OP I'd look to see what 2.5 hrs meant in £s after the drop in tax & NI was taken into account
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - the Argos Card!
    • Scorpio33
    • By Scorpio33 3rd Jul 17, 3:28 PM
    • 452 Posts
    • 650 Thanks
    Scorpio33
    • #9
    • 3rd Jul 17, 3:28 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Jul 17, 3:28 PM
    What about offering to work 8:30 - 16:30. Is that feasible?

    Practically, any requests for changing in working patterns have to be considered by a business. They can't turn requests down based on the reason for the request, they can only turn them down if they have a business reason to do so.

    So it you request to finish at 4:30, explain how the current work would be covered and how the team you work within would operate. They can say no due to the fact they couldn't cope with all staff requesting to do those same hours, but they could equally say yes.

    To me, I would offer to work 8:30 - 4:30 and if they kick up a fuss about that, then look for another job which can accommodate your childcare needs. If you can't get there for 8:30, then speak to HR and ask how they can fit in you finishing at 4:30. If the only option is to reduce your salary, then that is the only option you have.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 3rd Jul 17, 3:41 PM
    • 5,609 Posts
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    Takeaway_Addict
    What about offering to work 8:30 - 16:30. Is that feasible?

    Practically, any requests for changing in working patterns have to be considered by a business. They can't turn requests down based on the reason for the request, they can only turn them down if they have a business reason to do so.

    So it you request to finish at 4:30, explain how the current work would be covered and how the team you work within would operate. They can say no due to the fact they couldn't cope with all staff requesting to do those same hours, but they could equally say yes.

    To me, I would offer to work 8:30 - 4:30 and if they kick up a fuss about that, then look for another job which can accommodate your childcare needs. If you can't get there for 8:30, then speak to HR and ask how they can fit in you finishing at 4:30. If the only option is to reduce your salary, then that is the only option you have.
    Originally posted by Scorpio33
    They can turn them down for any reason you want, whether the OP wishes to take it further is up to them but probably unlikely.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 3rd Jul 17, 3:47 PM
    • 1,878 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    This would worry me....

    Either the HR rep is stupid or thinks you are stupid.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Why do you think this? What they have said looks pretty straightforward to me.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 3rd Jul 17, 3:47 PM
    • 4,344 Posts
    • 5,653 Thanks
    spadoosh
    No chance they could accept it. It would set a precedent for everyone, dave needs to pick up his gran, john is an up and coming burlesque star and needs to practice. Jasmine follow the religion of the spaghetti monster and needs to drink meerkat blood at 4.45.

    By all means try it but if i was your boss i would say no. They might like you more than i do though?!

    Youre not being unreasonable, youre just asking a question. My advice would be, dont be unreasonable if that request comes back refused.
    Don't be angry!
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 3rd Jul 17, 3:52 PM
    • 59,874 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    The problem is that in a fairly inflexible working space, where staff are required to be physically present between set hours ... only one person will ever be getting off early - to the detriment of others who might have occasional emergencies or urgencies.

    It can work in some workplaces, but if it leaves everybody else "holding the buck" until 5pm every day then it can cause resentment as they can't slide off half an hour early for a hospital/Dr appointment, urgent vehicle issue/garage, any other named urgency.
    • Kayalana99
    • By Kayalana99 3rd Jul 17, 4:48 PM
    • 3,318 Posts
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    Kayalana99
    They can turn them down for any reason you want, whether the OP wishes to take it further is up to them but probably unlikely.
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict
    With the flexible working hours request regarding children, they have to have a valid reason. They can't just say 'because we don't want to'. They have rights to refuse of course if it doesn't suit business needs, but they need to at least try and accommodate.
    People don't know what they want until you show them.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 3rd Jul 17, 5:08 PM
    • 6,220 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    ohreally
    I am required to change my hours
    Originally posted by bluenose2
    Who is requiring you to change hours?
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 3rd Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • 1,878 Posts
    • 2,801 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    With the flexible working hours request regarding children, they have to have a valid reason. They can't just say 'because we don't want to'. They have rights to refuse of course if it doesn't suit business needs, but they need to at least try and accommodate.
    Originally posted by Kayalana99
    It doesn't suit business needs to not have people there for the hours they expect to have people there. they might be able to accommodate, but if those weren't the hours they wanted people there, they wouldn't have set them in the first place. These requests can always be turned down.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 3rd Jul 17, 5:13 PM
    • 4,578 Posts
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    glentoran99
    It doesn't suit business needs to not have people there for the hours they expect to have people there. they might be able to accommodate, but if those weren't the hours they wanted people there, they wouldn't have set them in the first place. These requests can always be turned down.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser


    But if they are saying its acceptable if she takes a cut in pay then they cant use that argument
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 3rd Jul 17, 5:15 PM
    • 4,578 Posts
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    glentoran99
    Employers can only reject your request for the following reasons


    the burden of additional costs
    an inability to reorganise work amongst existing staff
    an inability to recruit additional staff
    a detrimental impact on quality
    a detrimental impact on performance
    detrimental effect on ability to meet customer demand
    insufficient work for the periods the employee proposes to work
    a planned structural changes to the business.




    I would make an application and wait and see what the official response is, If its not one of the above reasons then appeal, Citing the above, and reasons why it doesnt they cant then change the reason, That's exactly what I had to do in my work
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 3rd Jul 17, 5:16 PM
    • 15,786 Posts
    • 39,466 Thanks
    FBaby
    Legally, they have to insist that you take 1/2 hour, which is usually unpaid. However, many companies believe that staff perform better if they take one hour break so will have their own policy to insist on this.

    They are entitled to demand an hour break from ALL their employees whatever the circumstances. They've followed the law, considered your request and agree on some flexible arrangements, so nothing you can do about it.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 3rd Jul 17, 5:17 PM
    • 4,578 Posts
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    glentoran99
    If they let you do it, everyone will want to do it. Literally everyone.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser


    That's not a valid reason for refusal though, Each application has to be taken on its merits and not what anyone else might do
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