PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING
Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.Ransom strip?
Options
Narc0lepsy
Posts: 2,665 Forumite
Apologies for the length of this post: We've just had a letter from the council asking us to buy back a strip of land at the front of our house. This piece was a compulsory purchase by the council in 1965 as they wanted to widen the road; they did not use the full amount so 'leased' it back to our predecessors for a nominal rent. We have been in the house for 27 yrs and bought it from the estate of the previous owner after she died. We don't know whether she paid the nominal rent (we think not) but certainly we have never been asked for any rent.
The plan with our house deeds shows the strip to be at the front end of our garden and includes the drive. The plan the council have just sent also includes the grass verge and the piece of tarmac between our drive and the road. So they are wanting us to buy more than we actually currently use, or want. Their cost for the land is apparently reasonable, but their legal fees (which we have to pay) exceeds the cost of the land, plus we are expected to get a solicitor to do the conveyancing our end. We have to decide by the end of the month and complete promptly - so will need to find around £3-4K at short notice.
If we buy the land, I suppose we have peace of mind that should we sell the house in future, there will be no difficulties.
If we don't buy it, it will go to auction and we have heard of companies that buy such land and then charge you rent to access your own driveway. About 6 of our neighbours have had a similar letter.
Does anyone have experience of these 'ransom strips'? Someone has told us that as we have been using the land for 25 years we can claim squatter's rights as we have never been asked for rent.
I was incensed that the letter was addressed to "the proprietor" - they didn't even look up our names.
Any suggestions?
The plan with our house deeds shows the strip to be at the front end of our garden and includes the drive. The plan the council have just sent also includes the grass verge and the piece of tarmac between our drive and the road. So they are wanting us to buy more than we actually currently use, or want. Their cost for the land is apparently reasonable, but their legal fees (which we have to pay) exceeds the cost of the land, plus we are expected to get a solicitor to do the conveyancing our end. We have to decide by the end of the month and complete promptly - so will need to find around £3-4K at short notice.
If we buy the land, I suppose we have peace of mind that should we sell the house in future, there will be no difficulties.
If we don't buy it, it will go to auction and we have heard of companies that buy such land and then charge you rent to access your own driveway. About 6 of our neighbours have had a similar letter.
Does anyone have experience of these 'ransom strips'? Someone has told us that as we have been using the land for 25 years we can claim squatter's rights as we have never been asked for rent.
I was incensed that the letter was addressed to "the proprietor" - they didn't even look up our names.
Any suggestions?
Remember...a layer of dust protects the wood beneath it.
0
Comments
-
Narc0lepsy wrote: »I was incensed that the letter was addressed to "the proprietor" - they didn't even look up our names.
Why "incensed"? And where would they look up your names? Not all changes of proprietorship are registered.
The short timescale sounds somewhat bizarre. When you say "leased", was it actually leased i.e. is there a lease still running? Is any part of the land adopted highway (e.g. who cuts the verge)?0 -
How much is the ground rent in the lease? If it goes to auction the new owner can only charge what is allowed under the lease, they cannot make arbitrary ransom demands.0
-
The council aren't asking you to buy it back, they're giving you first refusal.
If there are six properties involved would using the same solicitor reduce costs?0 -
The squatters rights you refer to will be adverse possession, an element of which is that you have to be occupying the land without permission which doesn't seem to be the case if there is a lease on the land.All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.
Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.0 -
In your position - I'd buy it, ie to save any possible future hassle of any description.
Well worthwhile to see if you can share solicitor costs with the neighbours.0 -
If you do not buy it and a frontage company helps themselves to it, what is the potential damage to your future? If the answer is anything but none you might need to consider buying this.
Did this not come up when you first bought the house?0 -
Why "incensed"? And where would they look up your names? Not all changes of proprietorship are registered.
The short timescale sounds somewhat bizarre. When you say "leased", was it actually leased i.e. is there a lease still running? Is any part of the land adopted highway (e.g. who cuts the verge)?
I think it was the short notice and general courtesy - being asked to come up with what may be about £3-4k at 3 weeks notice was rather a shock. I appreciate they may not have time to research every name, but name and address will be matched on the electoral roll for example. I guess I'm just "old school" and expect anyone writing a business letter to go to the trouble of addressing the person by name. I run my own business and that's how I operate. Technically the letter had to be signed for - but as the postman just put it through the door (we were away for a few days), I could claim I haven't received it if challenged; however I'm not that stupid!
The verge is maintained by the householders, never the council. However, when we block-paved the drive (when we moved in it was just a hoggin track), we asked the council whether we could block pave right up to the road, at our own expense. They refused to allow that, so we paved up to the fence and the council came and put tarmac on the remaining area. Of course about 4-6ft of what we paved is still the council's property.
The fence, which is about mid-way between our legitimately owned boundary and the road, was in place when we moved in 27 yrs ago although we have replaced it with new, but in exactly the same place. Neither here nor there - but someone is bound to ask!
The lease - called "agreement" (so there may be a difference) was signed between the council and the previous householder in 1965 and the rent was one shilling per year. As far as we are aware, that has never been paid. We have a copy of that agreement and would have discussed it with the solicitors when we bought the property, but after this long I really can't remember what was decided. We are fairly cautious people so would have enquired as fully as possible what any implications were. As far as I know (and we are going to re-check all our documents) we never had a similar lease and we have never been asked for, or offered, any rent. It would probably be a different department, but when we enquired about paving the drive, clearly someone checked who owned what bit in order to refuse permission. Again, I'm not meaning any judgement on this, just saying.
Regarding the timescale, one interesting clause in the lease is that either party are obliged to give 3 months notice of termination - of course as we haven't signed it, it wouldn't apply to us.Remember...a layer of dust protects the wood beneath it.0 -
How much is the ground rent in the lease? If it goes to auction the new owner can only charge what is allowed under the lease, they cannot make arbitrary ransom demands.
That is interesting and doesn't really match my understanding of the concept of a "ransom strip" where we heard about vast amounts being charged people just to access their property. The rent was one shilling per year! (5p if you are young!!) What I referred to as a lease is entitled "an agreement for letting of land" so I don't know if that is different.Remember...a layer of dust protects the wood beneath it.0 -
Norman_Castle wrote: »The council aren't asking you to buy it back, they're giving you first refusal.
If there are six properties involved would using the same solicitor reduce costs?
Fair enough, sorry I wrote it in rather a strop!
Yes we are enquiring, with our neighbours, whether the same solicitor could do the conveyancing - and considering doing it ourselves. My main objection and what I really don't understand, is why we are expected to cover the legal costs of the council. If we were to sell the house, we would expect to pay our own conveyancing and for the purchaser to pay their own; surely it would be unusual for us to insist on the purchaser to pay our fees?Remember...a layer of dust protects the wood beneath it.0 -
If it was sold to someone else could the rental fee actually be increased? Any mention of that in the terms?0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 247.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards