Its claw back time - they are reneging on the deal!

Martyn1981 · 7 November 2017 at 11:09AM

Crowmann wrote: »

It will finish domestic solar - the storage story for small roofed properties (sub 7kw) is currently an economic dead end so in the main this is irrelevant unless battery costs fall dramatically - 50% plus.

Irena also expects the cost of batteries, key to back up a technology that relies on daytime, to fall by 60 percent to 70 percent in the next decade.

Solar costs to fall further, powering global demand - Irena

There is also hope for UK solar in the medium term, if UK government policy improves, so OFGEM might not be helping.

UK solar to rebound, but will be outpaced by Europe due to policy cuts

The UK’s solar market is set for a rebound in the coming years but will lose ground to the rest of Europe as a result of government policy decisions, leading consultancy EY has concluded.

Chris Hewett, policy manager at the STA, said the new figures highlighted the “damaging impact of policy uncertainty” solar has endured in recent years.

“…to reach the levels of economic activity in 2020 assumed in this report will need a clearer policy framework. The government likes to portray solar as a British success story, which it has been, but the reality is the rest of Europe is now stealing a march on the UK.

“We agree with SolarPower Europe that the UK solar industry can reach the levels of deployment, suggested in this report, of nearly 17GW installed capacity by 2020, so the opportunity for generating profits and jobs across the country is there for the taking.

“However, unless government stops sitting on its hands and starts removing the barriers to market, like allowing solar into the CfD auctions or providing fair treatment for solar rooftop in business rates, these benefits will not be realised,” he said.

Solar Power Portal put EY’s findings to the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

“This report predicts a bright future for the UK Solar industry. We want to see more people investing in solar and, as costs continue to fall, we expect there to be more opportunities to harness the power of storage technologies.

“We continue to support small scale solar projects through the Feed in Tariff scheme and will set out future support for the industry in due course," a BEIS spokesperson said.

Martyn1981 · 7 November 2017 at 11:14AM

michaels wrote: »

Suppose the distribution cost is 20% of the unit cost of 12p = 2.2p/unit.

Not scientific, more coincidence, but the cost of 'the grid' is about 30p/day, 33% National Grid, 66% DNO's. So assuming an average import of about 9kWh per day, we get:

(30p x 67%) / 9kWh = 2.2p/kWh!

Crowmann · 7 November 2017 at 11:20AM

Current evidence is pretty much the opposite Martyn.

Installed domestic is on its knees - how much of that is trialled storage schemes - those experimental projects that hugely subsidise the costs I do not know but quite a bit I suspect.

If this 'levy' ever sees the light of day then its game over.

Separately I do not see domestic install costs now falling - where panel costs fall other costs have increased - net effect near nil. The assumption that PV (not storage - I expect that to fall but by no where near enough to be viable for the UK weather/latitude/roof size capacity unless electricity costs triple) will continue to fall is no longer evident to me.

Of all the News items on solar I have read had I been making the decision now to install PV today even at 10p plus FIT I would have decided against.

Most would probably agree.

Let us hope the lobbyists can prevail against this - the form book says they will lose however.

Martyn1981 · 7 November 2017 at 11:32AM

Crowmann wrote: »

Current evidence is pretty much the opposite Martyn.

Exactly. The Tory attack on PV and on-shore wind (and buildings regs) in 2015 was upsetting, to say the least, but hope springs eternal.

michaels · 7 November 2017 at 11:32AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Not scientific, more coincidence, but the cost of 'the grid' is about 30p/day, 33% National Grid, 66% DNO's. So assuming an average import of about 9kWh per day, we get:

(30p x 67%) / 9kWh = 2.2p/kWh!

Problem is that whilst economics suggests the costs should be split between fuel cost being charged per unit and standing charge covering everything else the political reality is that low users will be subsidised with lower standing charge and higher cost per unit and thus there will be a cost to the grid of lower usage.

I think to be fair energy efficient homes should pay an extra charge for their reduced usage as should homes with gas heating and hot water rather than electric.....

Edit: In previous years as quite a high user, if I have put in our winter usage I have got a different set of cheapest tariffs with higher standing charge and lower unit price, but this year with all the price cap threats the winning tariff has remained the same pretty much whatever usage level I put into the comparison sites suggesting that there is now a single model of standing to per unit charges.

silverwhistle · 7 November 2017 at 1:02PM

I saw this last night but I had neither the energy or the emotional energy to respond. As Michaels has said, cretinous in the extreme.

So if we're worried about low users how about an extra supplementary tax on Passiv houses, a bit more on LED light bulbs and efficient A+ rated appliances?

I'm a particularly low importer of energy (~1100 kWh electricity p.a.) and make few demands on the grid, particularly at the peaks where the marginal costs makes it expensive for the grid to supply. If my annual electricity costs are say £180, I wouldn't be impressed with an additional tax at 40% or 60% or whatever absurd rate they come up with.

This looks like regulator capture to me, and the only saving grace in the matter would be my nice wodge of SSE shares!

EricMears · 7 November 2017 at 2:09PM

Surely the "daily standing charge" element of an electricity bill is intended to pay for the connection to the grid and the use of the company's meter ?

Cardew · 7 November 2017 at 7:16PM

michaels wrote: »

What's that - you have also decided to run an electric car to improve the local air quality?

Methinks, for most people, by far and away the major incentive to buy an electric car is lower running costs.

In the same way the driver for fitting solar panels - especially in the early days was profit.

= Crowmann

I cannot help but view this as a retrospective recovery by the OFGEM for the absurdly generous early FIT rates - I doubt the fixed charges will separate out those solar enabled homes on a FIT of 55p a unit (crazy) and those on sub 10p. ......

Quickly scanning the document the direction of travel is clear - those who have fitted solar are using less power and this is burdening those who do not have economic/physical access to solar with a greater proportionate cost.

The main argument seems to be that if 'behind the meter generation' (i.e. domestic solar generation) reduces the electricity demand for solar users, it increases the costs for other grid users.

In a rather predictable response from PV'ers on this thread, there also doesn't seem to be much sympathy for 'other grid users' also paying the 'absurdly generous early FIT rates'.

Cardew · 7 November 2017 at 7:24PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Don't us PV'ers pay more (not less) already?

My standing charges don't take account of the fact that import has dropped from 3,000kWh to 1,500kWh, so I'm now paying twice as much for grid access as a low-medium user.

.

You could of course join Ebico and pay a zero daily standing charge.

gazapc · 7 November 2017 at 10:17PM

Crowmann wrote: »

Current evidence is pretty much the opposite Martyn.

Installed domestic is on its knees - how much of that is trialled storage schemes - those experimental projects that hugely subsidise the costs I do not know but quite a bit I suspect.

I'd agree it is currently in the doldrums but there is a lot of activity going on in the background. Both taking advantage of the remaining FIT but also truly subsidy free projects. These are long term power purchase agreements with individual home owners or with social housing owners. The home occupiers get electricity significantly cheaper than retail prices, the installers get much better than wholesale prices for their generation. See the news from Solarplicity in September as a good public example of this.

Its claw back time - they are reneging on the deal!

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