Condensation Bedroom Windows
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The PIV units are very effective, especially in properties that have trickle vents on the windows. The positive pressure moves damp air out of the whole property replacing it with dry air, whereas an extractor fan pulls the replacement air from rest of the property into the room it is fitted in. If this air is already damp, the damp room dries out more slowly.
I looked at fitting a PIV unit into a rental flat that was having a bit of a damp problem in the bathroom, but held off as the tenants were changing and I wanted to see if the tenants made a difference. I even looked at building my own PIV unit but cost of the parts was only a few pounds less that a Nuaire Flatmaster so I gave up on that idea.
Thanks, I was surprised just how competitively priced they are in comparison to a dehumidifier, seeing as with this once it's installed you can almost forget about it.
I think now i have seen these before, in my father-in-law's new build bungalow before he moved, he had a vent in the ceiling, so imagine it would have been this.0 -
OP, you asked: "The extractor pump was again installed this year and was told it was the most powerful solution, it comes on when we turn the light on, and continues for approx 5 mins after we turn the light out.... could it be the power or duration could be increased and that could help?"
One way you might test this would be to leave the light on for 30 mins (or longer) after showering, so that the fan stays on for 35 mins. Does this reduce the window condensation? (Even if, as at present, the fan clears the condensation from your bathroom mirror, there could still be enough moisture in the air to condense on a cold window).
If you can find out the make and model of the fan you can Google to find out its rate of air flow and compare this with the volume of air in your bathroom. I agree with other posters that a humidistat would be a good idea.0 -
OP, you asked: "The extractor pump was again installed this year and was told it was the most powerful solution, it comes on when we turn the light on, and continues for approx 5 mins after we turn the light out.... could it be the power or duration could be increased and that could help?"
One way you might test this would be to leave the light on for 30 mins (or longer) after showering, so that the fan stays on for 35 mins. Does this reduce the window condensation? (Even if, as at present, the fan clears the condensation from your bathroom mirror, there could still be enough moisture in the air to condense on a cold window).
If you can find out the make and model of the fan you can Google to find out its rate of air flow and compare this with the volume of air in your bathroom. I agree with other posters that a humidistat would be a good idea.
Thanks, this was my original concern when posting however, now i have a hygrometer placed on the window sill of each window i have been monitoring the readings before and after a shower and it shows no real increase in humidity. I take it that if not the fan, then having the door shut is keeping the moisture in the bathroom, and also with the door shut there doesn't seem to be a build up of moisture in the bathroom.
You have a good point though, and will go up in to the loft and see if i can find a model number on the pump, and a timer switch that will allow me extend the running time of the fan after i've switched it off.
Thank you
Here's the up to date readings, the overnight temperatures have risen recently, thus no visual evidence of condensation, but the humidity readings are too high. I have kept the windows ajar, all trickle vents open, reduced the TVR on the radiators to 3 out of 5, the thermostat in the hall i have at 21 during the day and 18 when going to bed.... although.... the temp on the thermostat shows no lower than 21.5 which is during the night and up as high as 23.5 during the day, so in effect the radiators are not coming on...........
hmmm..... could that be the problem, it's warmer downstair than in the bedrooms?
Is that normal, or is there an issue with the bedrooms not retaining heat, as heat rises, which would do up the stairs and as i say, insulation is sparse above the area that is the bathroom and landing?
There again, the bedroom windows are open ajar for the ventilation, perhaps it's just there that the warm air is escaping.
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Timed the extractor fan and it runs for 7 mins after turning it off.
Went in the loft and took a photo of the sticker on it, it seems to be a sealed unit, so no visible switch to alter the timing,
Whilst in the loft the insulation above the bathroom isn't as bad as i thought, but, underneath where the water tank used to there is no insulation at all. I notice a vent in the roof, which i think should be there and would be needed if a PIV unit was installed. Not sure about the hole in the cavity that i noticed should be there though.
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The timing dials are normally under the cover, where the unit's wires terminate.0
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The timing dials are normally under the cover, where the unit's wires terminate.
Yeah i was thinking it would be under the cover somewhere, but it's not for me to play with, leave that to the housing, i'm just trying to gather as much evidence and advice as i can for the housing to make a decision on how to rectify the problem, i,e lower the humidity.
I have had a reply back via email from the housing which they say in conclusion that the humidity is too high when the outside temperature drops, and they will look into fitting a humidistat fan or a 50/50 air filter system.
I would hope if a humidistat fan that it wouldn't be installed in a bedroom would it? as i remember them being quite noisy, and i use a CPAP machine each and every night thus medically don't need disturbed sleep from the noise of a fan.
I am also unable to google what a 50/50 air filter system is for sure, but assuming it is the same as the PIV unit, or very similar.
I've since informed them of my medical condition, so will await their decision and dates for survey, installation, etc In the meantime i will continue the readings as will be interesting to see how they change once the remedy is in place.
Edit: Just been informed a contractor will be in touch to make arrangements to come and survey the best solution for us, so that's nice to get some reassuring news that something will be done and to get a professional insight into the cause of the problem and the remedy.
Thanks to all who took the time to read and post their advice, i shall update this thread throughout the process for those that have an interest, and for anyone who may research in the future.0 -
Well this is interesting, with a mould and condensation survey booked with the contractor for Wednesday this week i thought i would see how the readings differ with the windows closed and just relying on the trickle vents to do their job, after all that's how it's meant to be and when it gets near freezing in the winter outside, we are not going to want to have those windows open. So i closed the windows yesterday afternoon, and straight away the humidity rises and we are back to condensation on the panes, this is how it looked this morning when i woke... outer panes clear, but this was the middle pane.....
The middle pane has no trickle vent, only the 2 outer panes.
And here's the readings, outside temperature hasn't changed, but look at the difference in the main bedroom, internal temperature has risen a couple of degrees and the humidity has risen significantly, all through the windows being closed as they should....
Look forward to what the surveyor says tomorrow.0 -
This is a very common issue. It's more problematic if you own a single skin home. If it's double skinned w/ an insulated cavity then the inner wall will remain warmer and thus the heat difference is substantially reduced, and therefore there is less condensation.
There is moisture everywhere due to evaporation (via the sink, food, when you cook, as you breathe etc) and it needs to go somewhere. When you have the windows closed, the air heats up (computer, telly, heating, cooking etc) and accumulates more moisture. Such air is also "stale" since it is not being readily replaced, so naturally it will build up and condense on any cold surfaces.
PIV systems will practically eliminate the problem. Cool air is drawn in, and the stale air is moved around/pushed out so you have a constant stream of clean, fresh air. You can install it in the attic, and be done with it. It doesn't need an inlet like an extractor fan - all it needs is a well ventilated area to pull fresh air from, and the loft is ideal since it has (by design) a constant stream of cool air flowing through it.
You will notice that this issue mostly occurs between October and March. The PIV system is only run in this period.
Don't use an extractor fan, it is usually placed along with a vent so will only keep your wet room condensation free due to most of the airflow being from the vent to the extractor fan. It is also much louder, and operates at a high RPM whereas a PIV operates at a much lower RPM.
Dehumidifiers are expensively priced, costly to run, and it will take a lot of work to setup appropriate pipework throughout the house to adequately dehumidify it.
The PIV solution overcomes all of these limitations, since air is being pushed into the house forcing stale air out wherever there are gaps/vents. It is important you don't open windows when using a PIV system to maintain good air pressure within the property. You should however leave the trickle vents open.0 -
Re: humidistat. Some fans do come with a humidistat built in, but you only need the humidistat itself, which is basically just a switch that switches on when the humidity is above the level you set. They generate no noise. You can have the humidistat in the bathroom controlling the fan in the loft. Incidentally, that is quite a powerful fan you have (not sure if I'm allowed to mention the name on MSE?). The fan's manufacturers also make a humidistat to control it.0
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This is a very common issue. It's more problematic if you own a single skin home. If it's double skinned w/ an insulated cavity then the inner wall will remain warmer and thus the heat difference is substantially reduced, and therefore there is less condensation.
There is moisture everywhere due to evaporation (via the sink, food, when you cook, as you breathe etc) and it needs to go somewhere. When you have the windows closed, the air heats up (computer, telly, heating, cooking etc) and accumulates more moisture. Such air is also "stale" since it is not being readily replaced, so naturally it will build up and condense on any cold surfaces.
PIV systems will practically eliminate the problem. Cool air is drawn in, and the stale air is moved around/pushed out so you have a constant stream of clean, fresh air. You can install it in the attic, and be done with it. It doesn't need an inlet like an extractor fan - all it needs is a well ventilated area to pull fresh air from, and the loft is ideal since it has (by design) a constant stream of cool air flowing through it.
You will notice that this issue mostly occurs between October and March. The PIV system is only run in this period.
Don't use an extractor fan, it is usually placed along with a vent so will only keep your wet room condensation free due to most of the airflow being from the vent to the extractor fan. It is also much louder, and operates at a high RPM whereas a PIV operates at a much lower RPM.
Dehumidifiers are expensively priced, costly to run, and it will take a lot of work to setup appropriate pipework throughout the house to adequately dehumidify it.
The PIV solution overcomes all of these limitations, since air is being pushed into the house forcing stale air out wherever there are gaps/vents. It is important you don't open windows when using a PIV system to maintain good air pressure within the property. You should however leave the trickle vents open.
Thank you for such a detailed reply, I will certainly mention if this option would be viable to the surveyor today.Re: humidistat. Some fans do come with a humidistat built in, but you only need the humidistat itself, which is basically just a switch that switches on when the humidity is above the level you set. They generate no noise. You can have the humidistat in the bathroom controlling the fan in the loft. Incidentally, that is quite a powerful fan you have (not sure if I'm allowed to mention the name on MSE?). The fan's manufacturers also make a humidistat to control it.
For sure, MSE have no problem with brand names being mentioned, all for the greater good here lol
But yeah, i saw the wattage and wondered if this is a costly thing to run, especially if tying up a humidistat to it!
This is the thing though, the moisture in the bathroom is pretty much contained how it is, it's getting the humidity down in the bedrooms that is needed. I've taken readings before and after a shower and it shows a 2% increase in humidity in the main bedroom, no change in the spare, so thinking the fan in the bathroom is doing its job as it is.
Again i'll discuss this with the surveyor today...... bet the surveyor tells me all my readings are irrelevant though :rotfl:
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