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Parking Eye - ANPR Overstay 'Parking Charge Notice'
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AndyBSG
Posts: 986 Forumite
Apologies for starting a thread, I have read the newbies thread but am a little unclear on how to proceed.
In the incident in question my registered vehicle entered an ANPR monitored Car Park.
- A fee was paid using a machine there, one of the ones where you enter the vehicle reg, for 1 hour of parking.
- The ANPR recorded entry at 14:48 and exit at 16:17 so there was an alleged 28 minute overstay.
- There is no 'double dip' being alleged
I have 4 questions which I will put in bold for ease of reading.
My obvious concern is that a fee was paid so unsure if by paying a fee the defence of not seeing the signs is inadmissible?
Hopefully once those are answered I can send it off and the appeal will end there with them dropping the case.
If not i'm sure i'll be back with further questions!
In the incident in question my registered vehicle entered an ANPR monitored Car Park.
- A fee was paid using a machine there, one of the ones where you enter the vehicle reg, for 1 hour of parking.
- The ANPR recorded entry at 14:48 and exit at 16:17 so there was an alleged 28 minute overstay.
- There is no 'double dip' being alleged
I have 4 questions which I will put in bold for ease of reading.
Coupon-mad wrote: »
Dear Sirs
Re: PCN No. ....................
I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.
I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.
Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.
I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully,
My obvious concern is that a fee was paid so unsure if by paying a fee the defence of not seeing the signs is inadmissible?
Hopefully once those are answered I can send it off and the appeal will end there with them dropping the case.
If not i'm sure i'll be back with further questions!
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Comments
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The notice in question that was received
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If it's a retail park the FIRST thing to do is a complain to the retailer or site management firm, to ask them to call their dogs off as you were a genuine shopper/patron of the premises.Is that all I need to put in the initial appeal or do I need to put everything in that I will later use in the POPLA appeal?Should my appeal fail, have I lost the right to pay the reduced £60 fee?When should I appeal? Immediately or at the last possible minute?My obvious concern is that a fee was paid so unsure if by paying a fee the defence of not seeing the signs is inadmissible?
Was the back of the PCN one that has the paragraph about the POFA and 29 days to keeper liability?PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »If it's a retail park the FIRST thing to do is a complain to the retailer or site management firm, to ask them to call their dogs off as you were a genuine shopper/patron of the premises.
Unfortunately it was a sea side car park, not a retailer one.Coupon-mad wrote: »Was the back of the PCN one that has the paragraph about the POFA and 29 days to keeper liability?
Yes, it does have that on the back.
One other point, the payment at the machine was made by debit card. Can that be used to identify the driver making the 'driver not identified' argument null and void?
Probably getting ahead of myself here until I know if they reject the appeal.
Cheers for the feedback Coupon Mad, will send that off and see where it goes from there.0 -
One other point, the payment at the machine was made by debit card. Can that be used to identify the driver making the 'driver not identified' argument null and void?
all that does is identify the person making the payment , an occupant of the vehicle who was present on the day
for all they know , the driver stayed in the vehicle whilst a passenger got out and paid
dont overthink this , assume they dont know who was driving unless somebody is fool enough to admit it0 -
One other point, the payment at the machine was made by debit card. Can that be used to identify the driver making the 'driver not identified' argument null and void?assume they don't know who was driving unless somebody is fool enough to admit itPRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
There are mitigating circumstances for the overstay but not sure how they will wash when it goes to POPLA.
The date in question was Bank Holiday weekend, on a very hot day, at a seaside car park.
In short, the car park was rammed and there is no barrier to only let in cars when there are spaces so there were more cars in the car park than there were spaces, all queuing for spots.
I understand itt took a good 10 minutes to find a space and roughly the same again to get out.
I think the start time on the windscreen ticket reflects that as it was about 10 minutes after the ANPR snapped my vehicle but I do not have the ticket so not sure if they are obliged to provide me that information along with information on how many cars were actually in the car park according to the ANPR cameras and how many spaces the car park has).
Also, it is a single lane entrance and exit to get in so if a car comes in at the same time as one exits you get a mexican standoff which causes delays.
Finally there are no marked bays so my vehicle was actually blocked in by another vehicle and took a lot of maneuvering to get out, adding time to the eventual exit.
So, not sure if I can argue that the vehicle was only parked for the hour that was paid for0 -
yes you can try that argument as a part of the 2 GRACE PERIODS , both at POPLA and in court
one was one in court a few years ago by ivor pecheque (fistral beach) on similar arguments because driving reound and waiting for a space was not parking
so its already won in court on at least one occasion and this was reported on here and in parking pranksters blogs too
the more research you do, the better equipped you will be0 -
I think the start time on the windscreen ticket reflects that as it was about 10 minutes after the ANPR snapped my vehicle but I do not have the ticket so not sure if they are obliged to provide me that information along with information on how many cars were actually in the car park according to the ANPR cameras and how many spaces the car park has).PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
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