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Guarantor - Joint and Several tenancy

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gregston
gregston Posts: 3 Newbie
in House buying, renting & selling
Our son is due to start his final year at Brighton this September. He has paid a substantial deposit for a shared house with six other people (some of whom he doesn't actually know). Now we have had a form to sign as guarantors, but instead of just covering his share it covers "£3250pcm shared between seven". I believe the other guarantors have received the same. Is this normal? We can't sign up to something we can't afford but our son had trouble finding this house and would be gutted if he has to lose it. Any suggestions?
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  • Pixie5740
    Pixie5740 Posts: 14,515 Forumite
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    Yes that is quite normal. As his guarantor you are guaranteeing your son's liability. As a joint tenant your son will have joint and several liability for the whole rent there's no such thing legally speaking as "his share," of the rent.
  • Money_maker
    Money_maker Posts: 5,471 Forumite
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    Is it possible to get separate tenancies for each student? We managed this for DS2 but it was only a household of 3.
    Please do not quote spam as this enables it to 'live on' once the spam post is removed. ;)

    If you quote me, don't forget the capital 'M'

    Declutterers of the world - unite! :rotfl::rotfl:
  • mrginge
    mrginge Posts: 4,843 Forumite
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    You may wish to investigate the legal requirements for a valid guarantor agreement. My suspicion is that what you have described does not support them.

    Regardless of the possible invalidity of the guarantor agreement though, you say that you cannot sign something that you cannot afford, however your son has done exactly that and is now on the hook for £3250 a month.
  • mrginge
    mrginge Posts: 4,843 Forumite
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    Pixie5740 wrote: »
    Yes that is quite normal. As his guarantor you are guaranteeing your son's liability. As a joint tenant your son will have joint and several liability for the whole rent there's no such thing legally speaking as "his share," of the rent.

    Yes, very difficult to avoid j&s as a student, which is fair enough tbh.
    But there's no way on gods earth I would be guaranteeing SEVEN people, some of whom were unknown.
  • david1951
    david1951 Posts: 431 Forumite
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    Unfortunately you will probably have to sign it. Legally speaking, your son doesn't have a "share"; he is jointly and severally liable himself for £3250/month. You are guaranteeing this liability.
  • Guest101
    Guest101 Posts: 15,764 Forumite
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    gregston wrote: »
    Our son is due to start his final year at Brighton this September. He has paid a substantial deposit for a shared house with six other people (some of whom he doesn't actually know). Now we have had a form to sign as guarantors, but instead of just covering his share it covers "£3250pcm shared between seven". I believe the other guarantors have received the same. Is this normal? We can't sign up to something we can't afford but our son had trouble finding this house and would be gutted if he has to lose it. Any suggestions?



    Yes it's normal and no I wouldn't agree to it. It's madness to sign up to a joint tenancy with people he doesn't know
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 16,483 Forumite
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    edited 5 June 2017 at 11:09AM
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    Some people have mentioned that letting agents have agreed to modify the guarantors terms to say something like "my liability is limited to £420 a month, payable if my son fails to pay his monthly £420 share of the rent".

    If the other 6 guarantors sign up for the full £3250 liability, the agent might let you 'get away' with that. Or they might not.

    But that doesn't limit your son's liability for the full £3250 per month - in this case, apparently guaranteeing the rent of people he doesn't know.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    Guest101 wrote: »
    Yes it's normal and no I wouldn't agree to it. It's madness to sign up to a joint tenancy with people he doesn't know
    one of them drops out of uni and vanishes. Your son is liable (along with the others) for that person's rent. He can't afford it. You become liable.

    one of them gets out of his head on drink/drugs and smashes the place up. Your son becomes liable for the damage costs (as do the others). He can't afford it. You become liable.

    etc

    On the possible plus side:

    * have you seen the full tenancy agreement? If not, and you sign the guarantee agreement, it may not stand up in court as you were not fully informed of what you were guaranteeing

    * does the guarantee agreement say it is a Deed? If not, and you sign the guarantee agreement, it may not stand up in court as it is not a contract. It has to be a Deed.

    * is there a requirement for a witness to sign to confirm your own signature? If not, and you sign the guarantee agreement, it may not stand up in court as a Deed requires a witness
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 16,483 Forumite
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    G_M wrote: »
    On the possible plus side:

    * have you seen the full tenancy agreement? If not, and you sign the guarantee agreement, it may not stand up in court as you were not fully informed of what you were guaranteeing

    <snip>

    But you need to be careful with this kind of stuff.

    If you say to the court
    "They didn't send me the AST, so I genuinely did not understand what I was guaranteeing"
    you might have a good case.

    But if you say
    "They didn't send me an AST, and I purposely didn't ask for one, in the hope of making the deed unenforceable"
    you would have a "less good" case

    And the court might ask you why you didn't ask to see the AST etc. So it could get messy.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    eddddy wrote: »
    But you need to be careful with this kind of stuff.

    If you say to the court
    "They didn't send me the AST, so I genuinely did not understand what I was guaranteeing"
    you might have a good case.

    But if you say
    "They didn't send me an AST, and I purposely didn't ask for one, in the hope of making the deed unenforceable"
    you would have a "less good" case

    And the court might ask you why you didn't ask to see the AST etc. So it could get messy.
    Indeed. Which is why I carefully said:
    it may not stand up in court
    Once disputes get to court all sorts of factors, including simply the attitude of the judge, can influence the outcome......
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